Pathetic Fuel Economy w/T-Max - Experts please HELP!

[q1svt]

  glad it all was helpful...

Air filter yeah that will kill mileage... something tells me you might want to add a fuel filter to your list.

PM me if don't see/respond to your return.

[JapanDrifter]

glad it all was helpful...

Air filter yeah that will kill mileage... something tells me you might want to add a fuel filter to your list.

PM me if don't see/respond to your return.

Actually, I think I'd welcome a little clogging in the fuel line...LOL 

[JapanDrifter]

I ordered a bunch of parts and the last of it got here on Thursday (9/8).  Friday and Saturday I did the following:

1. Changed the oil and oil filter
2. Replaced the SE air filter with K&N HD-0800
3. Replaced the spark plugs with stock equivalent NGK DCPR7E, gapped at .043"
4. Replaced the fuel filter (dropping the U-retainer for the filter housing into my tank in the process)
5. Loaded T-Max base map #894 with bwoltz's ignition tables pasted in, as outlined above.

Started it up and so far, so good. Rode it all of 8kms.  Bunch more rain in the forecast, so may be awhile before I'm able to run this tank empty and give an MPG report.  Runs nice, tho. No pinging, no decel pop.  Something's different and I can't really put my finger on it.  Seems to pull a bit more, but something about the way it runs is also different.  Tighter or more solid feeling, if you will...

Also bought a used Dell laptop running Windows 7 for under $150.  A Latitude E5500 and the last model I think to run an RS232 interface, but this thing looks almost new, tho monstrous next to my MacBook Air. I have never been able run IAC auto all the way thru with this Acer netbook running XP and USB adapter (pretty sure the adapter is the issue). It would always time out or freeze up in the middle. The one time I was able to run a full IAC calibration thru to completion was when I first installed this unit on my bike, but I finally had to lug a whole desktop computer with a serial interface out to my backyard to get it done, cuz it wouldn't finish out on this netbook. Now, tho, being able to run it with the straight serial cable to a laptop, is beautiful.  No issues whatsoever.  This was a good investment and should last me awhile since its sole purpose will be to link to the T-Max.

Went ahead and ordered a new set of O2 sensors, as well, just to have a set of extras on hand.  They haven't arrived yet.  Ordered them thru Amazon in the U.S. and having friend in CA ship them over...

[q1svt]

  good to hear...

Started it up and so far, so good. Rode it all of 8kms.  Bunch more rain in the forecast, so may be awhile before I'm able to run this tank empty and give an MPG report.  Runs nice, tho. No pinging, no decel pop.  Something's different and I can't really put my finger on it.  Seems to pull a bit more, but something about the way it runs is also different.  Tighter or more solid feeling, if you will...

First tank is about letting the WBO2's dial in the mapping.  More interested in seeing the AutoMap results and if there are recommendations.  Then the spark plugs. [edited] and the cylinder head temperatures reported by TMax.

There are a lot of changes that should make the bike feel different, but main thing was the added timing giving a better throttle response in the 2000-2600 range [might need to click on the 'Thanks' button for bwoltz  ] that was a true gift.

I think you just need to stop whining and get yourself a rain suit and ride that bike  lol  real bikers don't care about no stinking rain... but that's why I live in sunny southern california were it never rains 

[JapanDrifter]

good to hear...

First tank is about letting the WBO2's dial in the mapping.  More interested in seeing the AutoMap results and if there are recommendations.  Then the spark plugs. [edited] and the cylinder head temperatures reported by TMax.

Yah, I still couldn't reset the logs.  Something about it being "married" to the first bike it was on.  Or I might need an advanced user license to do so.  I will set up something in Excel that subtracts the values up to this point to gives us new ones for each given unit.

There are a lot of changes that should make the bike feel different, but main thing was the added timing giving a better throttle response in the 2000-2600 range [might need to click on the 'Thanks' button for bwoltz  ] that was a true gift.

No need to worry about that. He'll get what's coming to him...

I think you just need to stop whining and get yourself a rain suit and ride that bike  lol  real bikers don't care about no stinking rain... but that's why I live in sunny southern california were it never rains 

I don't actually hate riding in the rain.  I have a great rain suit and I commute on two wheels every day rain or shine, cuz I don't own a car (tho it's usually by 50cc scooter since it's more nimble than a Harley for riding in traffic).  I just hate washing the damn thing. LOL

[q1svt]

Now that you got a fancy new (to you) computer... just send the email to get the AUA.  Thought that would have been done already .

[JapanDrifter]

Now that you got a fancy new (to you) computer... just send the email to get the AUA.  Thought that would have been done already .

It's done, now, but I still cannot reset the logs, for some reason.  I even went through the process of clearing everything and reloading the map one more (since I hadn't gone far) and still haven't.  I may have to contact T-Max about it.  I still think it has something to do with that part of the firmware being married to that first bike it was on...

[JapanDrifter]

Hello q (and everyone else who was following this thread before)!

I have not forgotten about, nor given up on this issue.  My apologies to all who were following in the hopes of seeing some kind of resolution or closure to the issue.  The issue is still not resolved however...

I ran my bike about 1300+ miles from September to December of last year after loading the new map then, it got cold, I got busy, my bike's emissions inspection lapsed and I couldn't do much with it until now. Long story short: mileage never did improve much. Got a little worse, if anything. Some data to follow...

For now, some impressions of map #894 with your timing mods. The bike runs "tighter", if you will, and seems to growl more with a bit more vibration (not sure if that's good or bad). Not as silky smooth as it was before. There is definitely more snarl on let-off with more resistance. It does tend toward pinging on take-off, especially with the motor up to temperature and more so in high-heat, stop & go conditions, so may need to retard timing in the lower rpm ranges?

For my emissions inspection, I had to take the after-market exhaust system off and put the stock one back on for it to pass. While I had it off, I went ahead and installed the new O2 sensors I bought last year and put the old ones in the stock exhaust, so I don't have to wrench them out every 2 years. I also fixed the exhaust leaks (mostly - still leaks just a tad from the front header collector joint, but I can barely detect it at all at op temps) with some of that Permatex Ultra Copper silicon gasket maker stuff. We'll see what effect that has on MPG, but so far, just keeping an eye on the fuel gauge, it's not looking very promising...

Some data:

Avg. MPG before new map:  about 29.52 per gallon

Mileages over 12 tanks of gas after new map (894), from Sept. to Dec. of 2016, and after installing new A/C, plugs, fuel filter:
1. 24.9 (10.6K/L)
2. 30.1 (12.78K/L)
3. 28.11 (11.94K/L)
4. 22 (9.39K/L)
5. 34.19 (14.56K/L)
6. 33.43 (14.2K/L)
7. 45.39 (19.30K/L)
8. 40.22 (17.1K/L)
9. 31.82 (13.49K/L)
10. 23.73 (10.1K/L)
11. 22.83 (9.84K/L)
12. 25 (10.6K/L)
Overall avg. 30.14 per gallon (little, if any, improvement)

Screen shot of RPM log totals after map change:


Fuel flow maps in cruise range (as per RPM log above):










Settings:


Any other relevant information you can think of, that I should post?  Suggestions?  Advice about where to go from here?

[HD/Wrench]

Yes the entire map would be a start . What is your current target AFR in that 2000-3200 range ??  I would try to target 14.3-14.5 first off if that is done great . It looks like you are getting decent logging and you can see it trying to remove fuel .  Correct afr first then adjust timing .  Many times it can be difficult in some areas on the street to get accurate data as you are flashing through the cells . But cruise area should target great and without much issue . that low of MPG should be showing black plugs and heavy soot in the ex system.

[q1svt]

It's not a TMax or tuning issue...

A TW555 cam was installed without ANY change to the stock compression... TW555 intake valve closes @ 43 degrees, reducing the corrected compression lower than a stock motor.  Just to many good CAMS available today that will work/perform with stock Harley compression, to spend time patching a bad decision to install TW555 on a stock motor.  My guess @ Japan's gas prices your ROI, would pay for a new cam within a very short time period. 

[JapanDrifter]

It's not a TMax or tuning issue...

A TW555 cam was installed without ANY change to the stock compression... TW555 intake valve closes @ 43 degrees, reducing the corrected compression lower than a stock motor.  Just to many good CAMS available today that will work/perform with stock Harley compression, to spend time patching a bad decision to install TW555 on a stock motor.  My guess @ Japan's gas prices your ROI, would pay for a new cam within a very short time period.

Or that 107" displacement upgrade, I reckon...

[rbabos]

It's not a TMax or tuning issue...

A TW555 cam was installed without ANY change to the stock compression... TW555 intake valve closes @ 43 degrees, reducing the corrected compression lower than a stock motor.  Just to many good CAMS available today that will work/perform with stock Harley compression, to spend time patching a bad decision to install TW555 on a stock motor.  My guess @ Japan's gas prices your ROI, would pay for a new cam within a very short time period.

Or that 107" displacement upgrade, I reckon...

Can't see your afr tables but unless you are 14.2-14.5 in the cruise rpms the mileage will be where it is. Mind you as mentioned the cam/compression combo could add to the inefficient MPG. When I played with Tmax, I found the afr tables way too fat. 13.0 -13.8 was a fuel pig.
Ron

[JapanDrifter]

Can't see your afr tables but unless you are 14.2-14.5 in the cruise rpms the mileage will be where it is. Mind you as mentioned the cam/compression combo could add to the inefficient MPG. When I played with Tmax, I found the afr tables way too fat. 13.0 -13.8 was a fuel pig.
Ron

Thanks for that reminder Ron! I went ahead and set it right at about 14.3 in my cruise range. Y'know I haven't even thought to touch the AFR maps this whole time?!  WTH was I thinking???  Just about all AFR tables for this 894 base map are set at 13.7 in general cruise range.  Now I just gotta ride 'er for awhile and see how that pans out.  Thanks, again!