'17s.... no KLANK??

[rbabos]

Another common trait reported by almost all test riders is that you can feel each shift through the clutch lever. I'm really starting to think the klank free shifting is in the clutch actuation system somewhere, gonna start checking into part number differences etc. I know the clutch assembly itself has a different #.

Normal. Slip assist when the ramps lock up, tend to slam the lever out and your fingers.
Bascially no point looking for a problem that doesn't exist. If you want to see this effect in all it's glory try launching in second gear as I've done a few times in the vrod. The lever actually chatters as the ramping goes in and out of tension from the motor pulses or as in the vrod case with shorter stroke the lever buzzes. I think the slip assist itself is way superior but it has this trait but one adapts in time and is barely ever noticed after that.
Ron

My '15 Limited Low has the same clutch & I have no such feedback in the lever.

One interesting note...

Way back when I bought my bike it had a serious KLANK issue, I mean way louder than most. I suspected then that clutch travel might be an issue, & wondered if maybe there was some air in the lines. When new it had a wonderful progressive feel at the lever, engaged over a wide range of travel. So of course I ruined it lol. I bled the clutch line, & the engagement moved to all the way out at the end of the lever travel. I checked the clutch throw & don't remember gaining much.... maybe .010 I think. As I recall it was about .065 or so.

I'd be very curious to see what the travel on the 17's is. Very easy to check with the derby cover off..... anyone??

If the throw was increased, so would the feedback to the handle. Not sure if the ramping is the same between the two either.
Ron

[Rockout Rocker Products]

'15 left, '17 right.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Tried to order the '17 slave cylinder from Boardtracker & Surdyke... "Can only be ordered by HD tech...."

 

[koko3052]

 

[Rockout Rocker Products]

My guess is parts are going to be tightly controlled until they see what might fail out in the field & delete inventories.

[Rokinrider]

My 16 RG clanked bad until the re-call on the clutch cylinder. It's way better now, doesn't matter I going for the M ate RG Monday. wish me luck!

[UltraManPaul]

I haven't ridden one of the '17's yet, but I've been reading/viewing some of the info on the tech they're using. One of the things I remember is they've lowered the idle speed. Seems to me, if they've done that, then the gears in the trans are spinning slower at idle than on pre '17 bikes. That, combined with the other changes mentioned here could account for less or no noise when dropping into first while at idle. Personally, I like the older factory Audible First Gear Engaged Indicator.... On a slightly different note, WTF is up with the gear indicator on the newer touring bikes? If you're sitting at a light with the clutch pulled in, and don't remember if you downshifted to 1st gear, you can't look at the indicator for confirmation because it doesn't work with the clutch pulled in?!?!? How fricking useless is that?!?.... And, before anyone gives me crap about it, I'm over 50 so I'm allowed to forget things sometimes....

UMP
Also, for your enjoyment, here's a link to an informative M8 review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAsWcrj_Y5c

[Don D]

Mine has no clunk and it is a twin cam.
Oil is my weapon. A little heavier trans oil and I use TranSynd in the primary.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Mine has no clunk and it is a twin cam.
Oil is my weapon. A little heavier trans oil and I use TranSynd in the primary.

ATF in the primary?

Run now while you still can 

[Don D]

No running needed, what I did was without a care of peer pressure and researched.
TranSynd is API service class GL-4 rated and has a very high viscosity index. I drop the primary oil every engine change at 5k.
Works in the biggest of automatic transmissions both on road and off and has served me well in my bike. Plus one less oil to stock in the oil shed.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

No running needed, what I did was without a care of peer pressure and researched.
TranSynd is API service class GL-4 rated and has a very high viscosity index. I drop the primary oil every engine change at 5k.
Works in the biggest of automatic transmissions both on road and off and has served me well in my bike. Plus one less oil to stock in the oil shed.

Preaching to the choir here brother. I run Mobil 1 syn ATF with Lubeguard highly friction modified ATF supplement.

OK... back to M8 talk

[Jako1]

 
Bel-Ray only cuz Redline is not stocked here in Jax
Special order 2 day wait 

[ghillman]

Think slipping this in a '16 and prior trans would  reduce or eliminate the friggin " neutral rattle" . Have a '16 110 that 's reasonably quiet..as long as the clutch is pulled in ..Sure like to get rid of the rattle...Greg

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Here's a pic from another forum, a sheet given to the dealers to explain the new clutch "advantages" to customers...



Note question/answer #2. I still say that replacing the slave cylinder (and possibly the master cylinder/housing) with one from '16/earlier will fix the "problems", but make more klunk.

[rbabos]

Here's a pic from another forum, a sheet given to the dealers to explain the new clutch "advantages" to customers...



Note question/answer #2. I still say that replacing the slave cylinder (and possibly the master cylinder/housing) with one from '16/earlier will fix the "problems", but make more klunk.

Sure but you trade one problem for another. While not everyone would agree, I like more disengagement then less. The other, it seems you adapt to. Something I've not tried yet with the S&A clutch. Pretty sure it will be next to impossile to bump start, unless a steep long hill. I've restarted my vrod once but was coasting pretty good. Not sure a normal push will turn the engine over fast enough to fire it if at all.
Ron

[stogieluvr60]

Two things here...I rode a friends 17 Ultra..I didn't remember what first gear did frankly because I was amazed at how hard the clutch lever pull was...I thought that hyd. clutch was supposed to lessen clutch lever pull??...I have the heavy diaphragm spring in mine and it pulls easier than his...and my clutch cable is 6" over length (bars). As far as the clunk goes, I've used every damn thing under the sun seems like in the the trans. & primary both...Harley, Bel-Ray, Redline, Spectro...you name it...(with the exception of ATF in the primary), with more or less similar results. I happened across Shell Spirex syn. 50wt gear oil for the primary and 85w140 for the trans. These two have given me the quietest drive line I have ever had...1st gear is a click and no more at operating temps and idle....5th gear whine is nonexistent (09 Ultra)...I have found, at long last, my holy grail of drivetrain lubes. This stuff is however, not readily available...you gotta look for it...but I believe if you try it, you'll like it. Two of my buddies use them both now and are of a like mind...one in a 2011 SG and the other in a 2011 Ultra...FWIW.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Two things here...I rode a friends 17 Ultra..I didn't remember what first gear did frankly because I was amazed at how hard the clutch lever pull was...I thought that hyd. clutch was supposed to lessen clutch lever pull??...I have the heavy diaphragm spring in mine and it pulls easier than his...and my clutch cable is 6" over length (bars). As far as the clunk goes, I've used every damn thing under the sun seems like in the the trans. & primary both...Harley, Bel-Ray, Redline, Spectro...you name it...(with the exception of ATF in the primary), with more or less similar results. I happened across Shell Spirex syn. 50wt gear oil for the primary and 85w140 for the trans. These two have given me the quietest drive line I have ever had...1st gear is a click and no more at operating temps and idle....5th gear whine is nonexistent (09 Ultra)...I have found, at long last, my holy grail of drivetrain lubes. This stuff is however, not readily available...you gotta look for it...but I believe if you try it, you'll like it. Two of my buddies use them both now and are of a like mind...one in a 2011 SG and the other in a 2011 Ultra...FWIW.

Then you haven't found the Holy Grail 

Mobil 1 syn ATF with Lubeguard highly friction modified supplement 

Back to the clutch...

I have the A&S clutch stock in my '15 Limited Low. The lever pressure is indeed lighter than a regular twin cam Limited with the normal clutch. The clutch itself is not the issue with the M8s.

[stogieluvr60]

Two things here...I rode a friends 17 Ultra..I didn't remember what first gear did frankly because I was amazed at how hard the clutch lever pull was...I thought that hyd. clutch was supposed to lessen clutch lever pull??...I have the heavy diaphragm spring in mine and it pulls easier than his...and my clutch cable is 6" over length (bars). As far as the clunk goes, I've used every damn thing under the sun seems like in the the trans. & primary both...Harley, Bel-Ray, Redline, Spectro...you name it...(with the exception of ATF in the primary), with more or less similar results. I happened across Shell Spirex syn. 50wt gear oil for the primary and 85w140 for the trans. These two have given me the quietest drive line I have ever had...1st gear is a click and no more at operating temps and idle....5th gear whine is nonexistent (09 Ultra)...I have found, at long last, my holy grail of drivetrain lubes. This stuff is however, not readily available...you gotta look for it...but I believe if you try it, you'll like it. Two of my buddies use them both now and are of a like mind...one in a 2011 SG and the other in a 2011 Ultra...FWIW.

Then you haven't found the Holy Grail 

Mobil 1 syn ATF with Lubeguard highly friction modified supplement 

Back to the clutch...

I have the A&S clutch stock in my '15 Limited Low. The lever pressure is indeed lighter than a regular twin cam Limited with the normal clutch. The clutch itself is not the issue with the M8s.

I forgot to mention I get both lubes for free to me but I have an open mind...is that Mobil 1 ATF an F type?

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Two things here...I rode a friends 17 Ultra..I didn't remember what first gear did frankly because I was amazed at how hard the clutch lever pull was...I thought that hyd. clutch was supposed to lessen clutch lever pull??...I have the heavy diaphragm spring in mine and it pulls easier than his...and my clutch cable is 6" over length (bars). As far as the clunk goes, I've used every damn thing under the sun seems like in the the trans. & primary both...Harley, Bel-Ray, Redline, Spectro...you name it...(with the exception of ATF in the primary), with more or less similar results. I happened across Shell Spirex syn. 50wt gear oil for the primary and 85w140 for the trans. These two have given me the quietest drive line I have ever had...1st gear is a click and no more at operating temps and idle....5th gear whine is nonexistent (09 Ultra)...I have found, at long last, my holy grail of drivetrain lubes. This stuff is however, not readily available...you gotta look for it...but I believe if you try it, you'll like it. Two of my buddies use them both now and are of a like mind...one in a 2011 SG and the other in a 2011 Ultra...FWIW.

Then you haven't found the Holy Grail 

Mobil 1 syn ATF with Lubeguard highly friction modified supplement 

Back to the clutch...

I have the A&S clutch stock in my '15 Limited Low. The lever pressure is indeed lighter than a regular twin cam Limited with the normal clutch. The clutch itself is not the issue with the M8s.

I forgot to mention I get both lubes for free to me but I have an open mind...is that Mobil 1 ATF an F type?

Sorry, I don't have any idea. A visit to the M1 site would probably tell.

[BUBBIE]

That's all the damn thing will do, is take up gear lash. The clunk is from stopping the shaft abruptly with the dog with some residual drive component in play from the clutch plates stuck together which is the primary cause. Poor adjustment or thick fluids.  The sudden stop breaks the oil bond on the plates, then the steels and fiber plates float past each other. The clutch pack components have a fair amount of inertia so the lighter the oil used the quicker they can separate inducing less noise to that violent action of slipping into first. In fact if the plates can seperate during the time the clutch lever is pulled in, the trans will make no other noise then a click. Seen it many times with pulling the clutch in, reving the engine a few times to make the plates break the bond, then slip in into gear. Just a click sound.
Ron






Seldom does mine Klunk IF I do the below on my COLD Start: ALL other times After Warmed IT Klunks...

Cold First Start:

I Just HOLD the clutch handle IN 5 seconds and Bleep the throttle Once, Keep holding the clutch IN 5 seconds and then try the First Gear...

Some Times MY 09 using MTL, will NOT Klunk.... I am totally SURPRISED when this happens...

signed....BUBBIE

[hogpipes1]

I haven't ridden one of the '17's yet, but I've been reading/viewing some of the info on the tech they're using. One of the things I remember is they've lowered the idle speed. Seems to me, if they've done that, then the gears in the trans are spinning slower at idle than on pre '17 bikes. That, combined with the other changes mentioned here could account for less or no noise when dropping into first while at idle. Personally, I like the older factory Audible First Gear Engaged Indicator.... On a slightly different note, WTF is up with the gear indicator on the newer touring bikes? If you're sitting at a light with the clutch pulled in, and don't remember if you downshifted to 1st gear, you can't look at the indicator for confirmation because it doesn't work with the clutch pulled in?!?!? How fricking useless is that?!?.... And, before anyone gives me crap about it, I'm over 50 so I'm allowed to forget things sometimes....

UMP
Also, for your enjoyment, here's a link to an informative M8 review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAsWcrj_Y5c

That should not be to hard to figure , the last gear before the stop for me everytime is 2 nd. no light needed  or wanted for me .  forgetting at 50 ha wait til 70 !!

[gonenorth]

Yes, if you have the time, pull in the clutch and wait for about 30 seconds give or take, and then put it into first gear.  It'll snik right in without a clunk every time as long as the rotating bits in the trans have stopped rotating.

I've got better things to do than hold my clutch handle in for 30 seconds. Start motor, warm up for 20-30 seconds, pull clutch for two seconds, slight "blip" of throttle, bang that thing into gear. Ride.

Let it klunk into gear and start riding.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Some guys on "another popular internet HD forum" are sending off their clutch levers to that place that reshapes them & sends them back.... brings the lever closer to the bars to reduce pull effort but reduces travel. Will be interesting to see if they get the KLANK back with less plate separation.