Transmission issues?

[rking1550]

Bikes a 01 road king with stock 5 spd tranny. As  some of you have read on my other thread,  I recently had the primary chain let go on me.
Got the primary all pulled apart,  should be OK there.

Question is on the tranny. It seems to have a problem with 4 th gear.  I can shift from 5 th to 4 th and back. Not sure if it's going all the way into 4th. And if I remove the shift cam and manually set everything to neural,  it'll shift thru 1st thru 3rd, won't 't go into 4 th.
Shift forks appear straight, checked according to the manual. I was told to check main shaft run out,  but don't have the tools to do that.  With the forks out I can move all the gears in and out freely by hand.
Any ideas or suggestions ?

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[86fxwg]

Try this,reasemble ur shift drum & reinstall. Run the clutch hub nut down, with an air impact or an electric drill spin the trans up see if it will shift.
As far as run out goes bend a coat hanger & check it. Ul know if it's bent bad,coat hanger don't move ur good.
Poor men have pour ways. 

86

[rking1550]

Try this,reasemble ur shift drum & reinstall. Run the clutch hub nut down, with an air impact or an electric drill spin the trans up see if it will shift.
As far as run out goes bend a coat hanger & check it. Ul know if it's bent bad,coat hanger don't move ur good.
Poor men have pour ways. 

86

Ok tried that,  coat hanger trick shaft doesn't appear to be bent.

Electric drill trick,  still won't go into 4 th gear.  The shift fork for fourth is very tight in the drum,  the other 2 forks wiggle a little, 4 th nothing.

What's  next ?

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[02FYRFTR]

Check the fork for wear, bent and also  check the groove on shift drum and the matching pin on the fork and be sure you have all the forks in their correct position on the shaft..

[rking1550]

Check the fork for wear, bent and also  check the groove on shift drum and the matching pin on the fork and be sure you have all the forks in their correct position on the shaft..

I've done that already,  all seems good. All in correct position, I'm new with transmissions , so I've been very careful following  the servicer manual,  I've checked and recheck for bent, wear damage,  check the pins on the forks I've checked the drum , all to my untrained eye looks and measured good.


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[86fxwg]

With shift drum removed,can u slide each gear freely without using the fork?
If all gears move on the shafts freely then it almost has to be in the drum or forks RKing.

The trick with the nut..... I used it to find an oil leak on my 86 before I reinstalled the inner primary. Dahm 4 speeds. But it's dry now.

86

[rking1550]

With shift drum removed,can u slide each gear freely without using the fork?
If all gears move on the shafts freely then it almost has to be in the drum or forks RKing.

The trick with the nut..... I used it to find an oil leak on my 86 before I reinstalled the inner primary. Dahm 4 speeds. But it's dry now.

86

Fourth gear sometime goes in real easy and sometimes doesn't want to go in at all.
All the others move smoother and easier,  there is a noticeable difference how fourth goes in. When it goes easy it's as smooth as the rest of the gears,  but then the next time I try it doesn't want to go in.  If I play with it a little sliding it back and forth it'll eventually slide in.
Also when I'm turning the main shaft by hand I sometimes hear a noise that doesn't sound  right to me.  I know it's hard to explain a sound. But it sounds like it's coming from the corner where 4 th gear is.  And I can feel it in the shaft,  it's just not 100% smooth.
But by looking in to the tranny I can't see anything that looks wrong.  No missing teeth on the gears or where the mesh together. 
Should I just pull the gear set out to do a better inspection ?
  And I believe the shifter pawl assembly needs to be replaced anyway.  New shifter shaft seal last fall is leaking already,  pretty sure I was told there's a groove worn into it. And the only right fix is to replace it.  And I'm almost there now.

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[86fxwg]

I would pull it apart. That said I've only had a hand full apart. Once it's out ur gonna understand how & why things do what they do.
There very easy. Set it on the bench & stack gears in the order u take it apart.
Replace ALL snap rings & retainer's. As long as gears look good ,no rounded edges on the dogs, runum.Replace bearings & reassemble.

86

[koko3052]

Wash & blow out the inside of all gears just in case there's a chip stuck inside.

[02FYRFTR]

Remove the main and counter shafts and remove all component from shafts, check the internal splines of the gears and the external splines of the shafts, replace all bearings and be sure that retainers and spacers are correctly positioned when assembling!!

[rking1550]

ok guys a little more info for you. Looking at the tranny a little more today.
  I noticed the mainshaft was shifted to the left side a little , the bearing on the clutch cable side of the tranny on the mainshaft was not tight against the snap ring. I would guess a 1/8th inch, that would explain the clutch lever/cable going slack on me and the push rod being "shorter".

  Question is why would it move ? 
  Did the race walk on me and would it allow the main shaft to move like that ?
  Is there a snap ring on the inside of the bearing also, to hold it in place , or just the outside ?

  thanks for the help.

[rking1550]

ok, I tapped the mainshaft back with a rubber mallet, move easily, the tranny now shifts thru all 5 gears up and down.
I still need to know what caused it to move ?
what holds it in place ? or does it just sit there and the torque normally pushes it to the right side so moving to the left is a strange thing to happen ?
  Did/would the chain breaking pulled it out ?
I have a local shop that does a tool loaner program, So I'm ordering the parts I know I need.

  thanks for any help.

[PoorUB]

As I understand it the shafts are held in place by the bearing housing, nuts and snap rings on the right side of the tranny. The bearings should not have a bunch of clearance to the snap ring when it is all the way into the bore. I wonder if the lip on the back side of the bearing housing is broken away.

Either way, I would pull the tranny down, tear it completely apart and look it all over. My bet is you will find something obviously wrong.

Possible when the chain broke it wedged for a split second and shoved the clutch assembly the the left. Or maybe the smoking gun is in the tranny, caused the shaft to move to the left, got the chain out of alignment and wore out the chain causing it to break.

[rking1550]

As I understand it the shafts are held in place by the bearing housing, nuts and snap rings on the right side of the tranny. The bearings should not have a bunch of clearance to the snap ring when it is all the way into the bore. I wonder if the lip on the back side of the bearing housing is broken away.

Either way, I would pull the tranny down, tear it completely apart and look it all over. My bet is you will find something obviously wrong.

Possible when the chain broke it wedged for a split second and shoved the clutch assembly the the left. Or maybe the smoking gun is in the tranny, caused the shaft to move to the left, got the chain out of alignment and wore out the chain causing it to break.

Plan is to definitely pull the gear set.  That local shop said the socket for the main shaft nut was out,  so I have to wait for it to be returned.  I've gone as far as I can without the speciality tools needed.
As far as seeing something obvious , I hope so and it'd have to be real obvious for me to see it. Like I said earlier first time into a tranny for me, so I'm not sure how some things are suppose to look.

I had the same thoughts trying to figure it out, did the tranny cause the chain to break or did the clutch pull it to the left when the chain got  wedged someplace ?
Maybe I'll know soon.

Decided to hold off on ordering any tranny parts till I get it apart and really see what I need. No sense in just guessing or throwing money at it. I have a feeling it's going to be expensive enough with the parts i do need,  hate to buy things I don't  need too.

Thanks for the info.

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[Cuebuilder]

I haven't seen a mess like that since my uncle missed a full throttle shift into fifth gear. When we finally figured out what happened was when we pulled the gears out and put them on the bench. There was a small piece missing from fourth gear. It was right on the edge of the teeth, off to one end.  It was only about the size of a small fingernail clipping. It was laying in the bottom of the transmission case, we figured it broke off and jammed itself between gears then it broke the chain in the primary. This was on his 1982 FLT with the enclosed rear chain. Took a while to find a different tranny but we finally located one. I feel for yha, they are mess to fix after something like this. Everything that you described happened to yours is just about exactly what he described, only difference was he road his about 30 miles after the miss shift and had come to a complete stop and was going back up through the gears when it happened but it happened the same as yours. I would look over the teeth on fourth and fifth gears very carefully. Hope that can help you on finding the cause of your problem.    Cuebuilder

[Just Nick]

I just pulled a stock 5 speed to go with a Baker 6 I will see what this guy wants to do with the take out trans if he don't want it its your for shipping costs it came out of a 2006 roadking with 24k on the clock. PM me if you are interested and I will get with this guy and see I bet he leaves it and does not care what I do with it.

[rking1550]

Nick, pm sent

My best guess at this point is the bearing housing is broke.  I've never seen one out, yet. But I believe there's a lip on the inner side that the bearing is pressed up to,  but I can't see with it together.  I believe that lip must of broke when the chain let go, probably got wedged in-between the clutch and primary case and pulled on the clutch hub breaking the lip on the bearing housing causing the main shaft to slide to the left about a 1/8 inch.
Don't see any damage to the gear so far but I'll know more when I get it out. 

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[86fxwg]

I just pulled a stock 5 speed to go with a Baker 6 I will see what this guy wants to do with the take out trans if he don't want it its your for shipping costs it came out of a 2006 roadking with 24k on the clock. PM me if you are interested and I will get with this guy and see I bet he leaves it and does not care what I do with it.

 

86

[rking1550]

Ok,  got the gear set out,  I was correct bearing housing lip broke. Every thing else, to my inexperienced eye, looks OK so far.  I need to spend some more time looking things over to.
Need to pull the main drive gear to replace the bearings there too.

[PoorUB]

Hey! I said that in post #12!!

[rking1550]

Hey! I said that in post #12!!

Yes  you did ! And you were correct.

  Now to figure out what to do.
JUST NICK made me a great offer if it works out with his customer.  If not and I need to buy all the parts I need new it's going to get expensive,  but at that point should I Just pony up the cash and go with the Baker OD 6 tranny ? 

  Probably double the cost for the baker,  but completely new tranny with 5 yr 50k warranty.
  Rated for more hp  and tq than I'm making,  right now. Baker told me 165 tq. I'm around 135- 140 peak tq.
Thanks for all your help. [emoji482]

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[PoorUB]

You shouldn't need much for the tranny. Bearing housing, bearings and gaskets. I would tearing all down and look over everything.

The possible free tranny is tempting, but I am a bit of a sadist and would rebuild the old one just for my own bit of pride and knowing what is in there.

[calif phil]

I would do the Baker if you are going to keep your bike for a long time.  How many times have you tried to click the lever into another gear that wasn't there?   

[rking1550]

Parts I know I need so far.
Bearing housing
Shifter pawl assembly
All bearings
All gaskets
The first 2 parts are the expensive ones so far.  I haven't looked at any others yet.
I agree on the pride thing,  it's been nice just getting it all torn down. And now I can say I'm no longer a transmission Virgin, lol.
I've had some help to, both from HTT , and a friend lending me his personal tools that he makes his living with, in order to get this far.
thank you to all.

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[rking1550]

Baker OD6 arrived yesterday.  Thanks to California Phil.
Now a couple more questions.
The counter shaft roller bearing,  how do I remove it ?  Special tool ? Drive it out from the inside of the tranny or drive it in from they out side ? Hate to hammer on something that I shouldn't be hammering on. The kit came with a new roller bearing, I'd like to put it in rather than leave the old one in. 
And I'm pretty sure I'll have a few more questions.
Thanks. 

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