which beehives for SE251s

[dave brode]

Gents,

I am not learned enough to say how little spring pressure is suitable for them. What's out there as far as aftermarket beehives? Anyone care to recommend a spring that's safe to 6200 or so?

TIA
Dave

[road-dawgs1]

What year bike you got?  The stock beehives in the newer bikes can easily handle SE251's

[hardyheadscom]

SE, Manley,Woods.........use Manley they are priced right.

[dave brode]

Sorry, my heads are older, not metric valves. I have reason to pull the heads [grooves] and I thought about trying beehives. I have manley straight springs now.

I'm a bit afraid of stock beehives with 251s anyway.

Thanks for the brand info, Larry.

Dave

[Don D]

Stock beehives are fine. You will need a conversion retainer and locks.
AV&V R6500-4 and VL311. The locks are 9°. Retainer will need a .050 reduction on a lathe in spring seat OD.
If you are wanting a higher quality spring their VSK600AS7 springs are sweet. Retainer for that is R6000-4, about 165# on the seat.

[Scramjet]

I checked the part numbers on the beehive springs a while back.

Even though it does not make sense, the stock beehives are not the same part number as the SE beehive springs.

I hope someone who knows for sure will chime in here.  I do know that I ran the 07 stock beehive springs with the SE251 cams for over 10,000 miles with no problems.

B

[Don D]

As I said IMO and IME the stock spring is fine. Some have a problem with the wire not being "kobe steel alloy" and just want a little better quality for insurance. The SE spring is not one I choose because the seat pressure is too high IMO, about 195#

[hardyheadscom]

Sorry, my heads are older, not metric valves. I have reason to pull the heads [grooves] and I thought about trying beehives. I have Manley straight springs now.

I'm a bit afraid of stock beehives with 251s anyway.

Thanks for the brand info, Larry.

Dave

I wouldn`t use beehive if I didn`t have to. The Manley springs are great my first pick in springs

At around 2.0 valve protrusion is around  165# and up

[Hillside Motorcycle]

As far as the beehines are concerned, too use the Manleys, as they as more budget-consious.
On the 5/16" stems, we still have a pile of Crane 1101's on hand.

[wfolarry]

I use Manley, Comp & S&S beehive springs. They all work good as well as the stock ones. Installed a set from Comp when they first came out in my bike & they're still in there doin' just fine.

[Don D]

Agreed
Similar here
I was just suggesting AV&V because they are easy for end users to buy from Goodson.

[wfolarry]

True.

[dave brode]

Gents,

Thanks for the replies.


Iirc, Bob Wood claims that stockers have just 100 lbs on the seat. If this is true it proves to me that they'll control the valve w/less pressure. Some don't like the beehive design due to what happens if a spring breaks. I like them due to the fact that they'll control the valve with less pressure due to being lighter. To run them at spring pressures that are used with normal springs seems silly to me.

Imo, fwiw, most guys run more spring pressure than needed. I honestly don't know what spring are on my heads, but I am pretty sure that they are Manley. Larry H, they came from our friend Frank.

The engine is pretty quiet for 251s. It has the late tensioners cam plate etc. There is *some* clickity-clack, but most feloows would be happy with this amount of noise. I've heard many stock bikes with noisier engines. I just had an inkling to try beehives, as imo, a lighter spring will often quiet a tc down.

If Wood is correct, and the stockers at 100# seat will work, I see the AV&V upgrade as too stiff, assuming their spring rate per inch is as great or greater than the stockers, which surely it is.

On the subject, fwiw, many of the later model hotrod LS chevies use a little $56 a set from GM 1.25" o.d. beehive that goes in at 92 lbs seat and is like 250-ish open. They rev all day to 6500. I'm using that spring at 95 lbs seat in a cadillac engine with heavier valves that's gone 5600 with no valve float.

thanks again.
Dave

[Hillside Motorcycle]

I'll say again that Reher-Morrison, did a huge study on the effects of valve spring pressure, that appeared in National Dragster Magazine, a few years ago.
It boiled down to the only losses that were found, were upon intial start up only.
Scott

[hardyheadscom]

As far as the "beehines" are concerned, too use the Manleys, "'as they as more budget-consious"" ?? .On the 5/16" stems, we still have a pile of Crane 1101's on hand.

95 percent of my spring failures  over the years came from Crane the rest came from Woods and they were back to back no more woods springs for me. 0 failures with manley or S&S

[Hillside Motorcycle]

As far as the "beehines" are concerned, too use the Manleys, "'as they as more budget-consious"" ?? .On the 5/16" stems, we still have a pile of Crane 1101's on hand.

95 percent of my spring failures  over the years came from Crane the rest came from Woods and they were back to back no more woods springs for me. 0 failures with manley or S&S

I'll agree with the early Wood (K-Motion) spring hell that went on. It was always the inners. Trust me, I know all about that, as it was not fun, but we fought threw it.
His springs as of the past 6-7 years now have had 0 failures, and he offers a Lifetime Warranty to the original purchaser. Absolutely unheard of in this or any industry.
We have seen on many occasions the S&S perferated upper collars break. Never a good time for the owner.

[dave brode]

I'll say again that Reher-Morrison, did a huge study on the effects of valve spring pressure, that appeared in National Dragster Magazine, a few years ago.
It boiled down to the only losses that were found, were upon intial start up only.
Scott

Hi Scott,

I can't argue about power loss. I'm of the opinion that heavier than needed pressure in our engines can *sometimes* make for more noise.

Thanks.
Dave

[Hillside Motorcycle]

I'm believing that if the hydraulics of the lifter is good, then quiet operation should be good as well.

[Don D]

Dave we have beat this horse before and I disagree with some based on my experiences that a cam such as yours needs 160+ lb seat 380+ lb springs, and agree with you. I am running in two bikes stock OEM beevives with TW5 Woods cams and they run quiet no valve float and both have redline set at 6,200 and have see that with no valve float.
I can't see the correlation between a SE street cam and a pro stock cam motor with 1" of lift?
The stock beehives when used with the OEM early lower spring collar and the top collar I suggested will net 135# on the seat and 345# open ~. Is that not sufficient?

[dave brode]

Dewey,

Thanks for the info. I was assuming that the 100# seat that Bob Wood claims would be the case with the "adapt" parts that you mentioned. If some guys are getting by with the metric valve heads as is and 251s, I'm sure the 135/345 would suit.

Thanks again.
Dave

Dave we have beat this horse before and I disagree with some based on my experiences that a cam such as yours needs 160+ lb seat 380+ lb springs, and agree with you. I am running in two bikes stock OEM beevives with TW5 Woods cams and they run quiet no valve float and both have redline set at 6,200 and have see that with no valve float.
I can't see the correlation between a SE street cam and a pro stock cam motor with 1" of lift?
The stock beehives when used with the OEM early lower spring collar and the top collar I suggested will net 135# on the seat and 345# open ~. Is that not sufficient?

[Don D]

Bob Woods numbers match the older OEM Springs used on early pre-05 TC, and other models.

[dave brode]

Bob Woods numbers match the older OEM Springs used on early pre-05 TC, and other models.

Dewey,

Hmm. He claims '05-'09 beehives are 100 lbs seat.

http://woodcarbs.com/valvesprings.htm

In any case, thanks again.
Dave

[Don D]

He is wrong I have two Rimacs, both have been calibrated, and have tested well over 50 sets. Never have seen any that low with stock valve stem protrusion.

[FSG]

I had to Google to see what a Rimac looks like, for others that don't know => Valve Spring Tester

There's even on on 'bay  =>  Item number: 260397863790