Cam Help

[1997 fxstc]

I plan on swapping out my stock cam to and EV 27 this winter on my 1997 Softail Custom.  I have gathered through reading posts to make sure I change the cam bearing to a Timkins.  I have also read where people have swapped out the cam gear for the stock one to avoid shimming?  Don't really understand why you would want to do this so looking for comments.  Also looking for some recommendations on breather gears, lifters and pushrods.  I will be cutting the stock pushrods and using adjustables.  Thanks for the help.     

[gryphon]

I have had many cam gears swapped but not for shimming purposes. It's to make sure it meshes properly with the pinion gear.

[98lowrider]

This will get slammed but I'd use a stock plastic breather gear. Get a new one replace your old scratched one. Not everyone agrees with this but if you put a steel one in and you get anything in there it will destroy the bore. It's plastic for a reason and probably scoured for a reason too. Itll save you some cash too. People love pushing the S&S steel gears. No thanks.

As far as the gears they are all different. Switching your stock gear to your new cam ensures they are matching. It should be color coded. It's listed in the manual as well if you want to get a new one but no need, just need access to a press

[1997 fxstc]

Why I said Timkins I have no idea; Torrington.  Also going some more reading and comparing riding style seriously considering the EV23.

[Grayrider]

I put a 27 in my 97' Heritage when I had it. Cam came on about 2800 rpm.
I would have liked it a bit earlier in the 2500 range as I ride in the 3000 - 4000 range mostly.
So if that is your riding style the 23 might suit you better. I think it comes on earlier.
I used my plastic breather gear again with no issues.
Not sure how much work you want to do but if I did it again I would have the heads cleaned up and shaved about 0.050"
and a 0.30 head gasket and adjustable push rods.
That compression bump will really wake up most bolt in cams you install.
The cam alone you will feel the surge, with headwork you will really feel the pull!
JMO

[thumper 823]

Yes ,you need the new bearing, next,  you need to check your end play on any cam upon installation.
This is a pretty simple operation.
For those real fussy you can swap the gears around, albeit you may be chasing your tail as who knows
if the original is in there?
These are old now,  and have been taken apart many times most likely .

[Hossamania]

If it still has the stock cam and bearing in there, most likely still the original gear. Even if the bearing is changed, if stock cam, probably stock, original gear. Changed the bearing in my brother's '96 as a maintenance item, but put the original cam back in.

[1997 fxstc]

It only has 20,000 miles on it.  I think I am just torn between putting the old gear on the new cam or not, whether it would be worth it.  I would probably be more worried about hearing some new "gremlin" noise because of the new gear.  I am 99.99 % it is the original gear on the cam.

[Hossamania]

You'll probably be fine with the new gear. When you put it in, give it a visual, make sure it doesn't seem to be tight and binding, or so loose that the gaps seem overly large. How's that for technical advice?

[1997 fxstc]

 Sound advice Hoss ;-)

[BrianG]

There's actually an easy way to measure the cam gear if you can run a micrometer and have access to some thread guage wires.  That way you can be certain about the fit. 

You can install it and then measure the backlash too, but that's a bit of a PITA because you have to get the dial indicator on a gear tooth through one lifter-block hole and get your finger in to the cam gear through the other hole and then try to see 0.0005" of movement.

I prefer the thread guage wire method.

[98lowrider]

You can buy some cams without new gears and save some cash. Vthunder for example. How about an evl3000 or evl3010 no gear. Saves you money since one can be had new for $99 then you swap the gear and never have to worry if the new one will be right.

[voganni]

Andrews cams come with a "red" gear installed. (most common size). My '97 had a red pinion gear so I used the gear that came on the cam. It was just about right, close enough, just a tiny bit tighter than stock. Harley allows a ridiculous amount of end play in the cam and does not shim the stock cam. You will need to shim a new cam if it's an Andrews. I think I  used a .010 shim I purchased from an indy builder. I measured the end play, subtracted what I wanted for end play (.006-.010 I think) then got a shim of that size. I used an S&S reed breather valve. No issues in 41000 miles. But many different opinions on them too.

[rigidthumper]

On a 20 year old softy I'd use the (EV13 if you & your OL weigh in above 300, EV23 if combined weight is below 275) with your original gear and new cam bearings and lifters. Preventative maintenance.

[MiketheBike]

I agree with Greyrider. The cam on its own won't do a whole lot. Shave 50 thou off the head and use 30 thou head gasket (this should still give you at least 60 thou clearance piston to valve but check just in case) and you will really feel the difference. If you go with the Andrews alumium pushrods (which will give you an extra 500rpm if your module is up to it) you will need to clearance the pushrod tubes, especially the front 2.

[mp]

The EV13 is similar to the EV23 only better in every way.  And that cam alone does make a tremendous difference in an otherwise stock Evo.  I couldn't be happier with it, plus it doesn't hurt the fuel mileage.  And yes to new lifters from a reputable company.  But I wouldn't use H-D lifters.  Everyone says the B lifters are better.   But then they say to change them every 25,000 miles.  I would use lifters that will last the life of the engine.

[JW113]

Cam gear fitting is all a matter of how much noise you can tolerate. Too tight, and they whine like an old truck transmission, too loose and you'll think somethings up with the tappets. It's relatively simple to set it up with just the right amount of clearance. All it takes is beer and patience.

With the tappet blocks out, put the cam in with gear and pinion gear DRY. Then put your finger down in one of the tappet block holes, and try to rotate the cam back and forth. Also try to slide it inboard and outboard.

If it's too loose, you will feel the gear teeth rattling together. If it's too tight, you won't be able to rotate it all, and likely not be able to move it inboard/outboard. If it's "just right", you will ever-so-slightly feel it click by rotating, but it will still move inboard/outboard with little resistance. Do that, and you'll know which way to go on the cam gear, bigger or smaller, to get it just right. If it is not just right, take the old cam and new cam to a shop and have them R&R the old gear onto the new cam, done!

You might want to actually try the wiggle test on the stock cam (dry gear teeth), to make sure it is actually "just right", before swapping that gear on the new cam.

I like to shim the end play to .010", some like it a little tighter. I just can't get past some words of wisdom from an old timer I heard years ago:

Set a Harley up too tight, take a long walk some cold wet night.
Run 'em loose, hear 'em go clank, like putting money in the bank.



-JW

[1997 fxstc]

The EV 13 will be the new addition.  Post more on it in the spring....Thanks for everyones input.

[PineyJoe]

Just a question on cam and bearing swap, what kind of bearings are being used? because I haven't heard anyone mention line boring.

[Wicked]

Just a question on cam and bearing swap, what kind of bearings are being used? because I haven't heard anyone mention line boring.

Align bore not required if just replacing the inner cam bearing. Replacing the cam bushing in the cover requires it though...

[PineyJoe]

That's what I thought, I never owned a Evo up until this summer, I did replace a cam for a friend years ago and that's probably when I heard about this.

[Deye76]

A good friend of mine who had a shop for 27 years told me recently, with all the hundreds of cams he installed, he only changed the gears a couple times, said it made little difference, not worth the effort. He was highly regarded by many, so I have no doubt it's  a game changer to not use the stock gear. I'm sure there are exceptions, but very few. Think about the thousands of twin cam gear drive set ups installed, S&S and Andrews have 3 choices of gears. I tried 2 in a 95" with loud cams, didn't do anything but made my wallet lighter.
Everyone I hung around with, changed their 4 spd trans gears to Andrews, I bet their cam gears are just as good.