Milwaukee Eight testing.

[1FSTRK]

Your the man
Man did that pipe flatten the tq curve, talk about power every where.
How about putting this latest run on the graph with the other runs in post #89.
I kind of wish I was closer to your shop, I miss all this testing on the new stuff.
Thanks

Here you go Eric.
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The additional hp in the upper rpm does not surprise me but the improved low end tq from a better flowing pipe says a lot about the over all design. I only wish we could have had this pipe on with the stock cams, it may have shown more low end there as well. With the pipe change we see the power peak 560 rpm sooner compared to the de-cat pipe so we may well be out of cam again.

Stock cam and Billet cat are still possible.

Sometimes you have to step back to truly see where you are, and where you are going. Herko calls it discipline.

We are also seeing the peak torque move to the left nearly 1000 rpm with the current configuration over the de-cat and the SE mufflers.

Out of cam? Possibly, I have been thinking valve springs, just a thought to ponder.

Dan Vance, thanks for your conformation, it is very much appreciated, these Milwaukee Eight's are a different animal for sure and my goal is to be ahead of the curve when they are out of warranty and to have the "go to" cam for a stage 2 107.

I mentioned the early tq in the first sentence, what about the difference in the two exhausts do you attribute the torque to?

Primary tube length. I have spoken with different exhaust designers and they are seeing the same thing on the M8.

Interesting, I will have to go back and look over the intake to exhaust flow/velocity ratios and see how they compare to the Twin cam.  With this quality of base runs I bet some simulator modeling would now be useful.
Thanks again.

[Durwood]

No simulator needed, just more data, and parts.....Lol

[1FSTRK]

Simulators run on data and parts, otherwise they just another computer game.

[Lucky Pete]

Your the man
Man did that pipe flatten the tq curve, talk about power every where.
How about putting this latest run on the graph with the other runs in post #89.
I kind of wish I was closer to your shop, I miss all this testing on the new stuff.
Thanks

Here you go Eric.
[attach=0]

Wow that`s amazing seeing max torque so low with the exhaust and almost flat right to the end. Thats got to be a fun motor.

[1FSTRK]

I know it is the busy season and testing comes second to making a living but when you get back to this thread could we get a CCP reading for the CR cam in this last combination?
Thanks

[Durwood]

I know it is the busy season and testing comes second to making a living but when you get back to this thread could we get a CCP reading for the CR cam in this last combination?
Thanks

CCP currently is 202/202 with the CR-450 cam, it was 215/215 stock. I agree with your thoughts on keeping the CCP up to really see the benefit of the 4 valve, dual plug heads with a good cam profile.

After the cam/exhaust tests are completed, even though a stage 2 is my favorite and best bang for the buck, the heads will be next.

We are leaving it 107", with porting and compression bump, via CC'ing the chambers to obtain the desired CCP.

I am installing another Cycle-Rama prototype cam this weekend, the CR-460. Early results are really good, I am looking forward to trying to repeat them on my dyno.

Daren

[NCTURBOS]

I know I'm really grateful for the testing you're doing, Daren. I have all intentions to keep mine a 107", but want the best bang possible when I add a camshaft & full exhaust to the mix.

TIA,

K.

[Durwood]

The CR-460 is in, adjust the valves, install the pipe and AC, then to the dyno.
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[Durwood]

Here's a sneak peak at a Cycle-Rama M8 head.
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[1FSTRK]

 

[saafrican]

Fantastic and very interesting work you are doing .
Thanks  ,this is an interesting project to follow .
Its a pity that Harley will not let us "improve" our 2017 models .

[PoorUB]

Its a pity that Harley will not let us "improve" our 2017 models .

Harley is not stopping you from doing what ever you want to your motorcycle. The are just refusing to warranty it if there is a problem on a modified motorcycle, which seems reasonable to me. I have never understood why HD would allow a rider to swap out exhaust and air clearer and retune the bike and still honor warranty.

[FSG]

Here's a sneak peak at a Cycle-Rama M8 head.

those exhaust studs look to be the business

[harleytuner]

Its a pity that Harley will not let us "improve" our 2017 models .

Harley is not stopping you from doing what ever you want to your motorcycle. The are just refusing to warranty it if there is a problem on a modified motorcycle, which seems reasonable to me. I have never understood why HD would allow a rider to swap out exhaust and air clearer and retune the bike and still honor warranty.

I agree and its no different than its ever been.  Performance parts and aftermarket tuners habe always voided the warranty

[1FSTRK]

With respect for others thoughts and opinions, hate to see this great tech thread side tracked with the same old things already beat to death in many other threads. 

[Herko]

With respect for others thoughts and opinions, hate to see this great tech thread side tracked with the same old things already beat to death in many other threads.

Agreed.
This thread needs to live on.
A lot of very useful info so far with a continuance in the works.

[No Cents]

With respect for others thoughts and opinions, hate to see this great tech thread side tracked with the same old things already beat to death in many other threads.

Agreed.
This thread needs to live on.
A lot of very useful info so far with a continuance in the works.

        X2
carry on Daren! 

Ray

[rigidthumper]

Just a heads up Darren- I've had a couple reports of head bolts failing after a few R&Rs, where I never had a head bolt failure on any TC motor- don't remember many on evos, either.  On and off once may be fine, but multiple swaps ( testing different bores, swapping cranks, CNC heads, etc) resulted in head bolt homicide. I believe HD is now including new head bolts in the stage 4 kits.

[Ohio HD]

.

[rigidthumper]

The 117 kits use MLS head gaskets, so I use Cometic procedure.

[rbabos]

The 117 kits use MLS head gaskets, so I use Cometic procedure.

Think I've done my last incremental torgue sequence. Recently worked on a rusty bitch 2000 RG. You know the ones where they creek while torquing regardless of lube used. No way in hell all four studs are at the same torque but it seems to run fine and no head gasket issues. Next time X torque and 90 degrees for a more uniform stretch on the studs.This has been proven over and over to be more exacting.  Gasket type matters a rat's so I really don't understand why Cometic feels the old school method is better.
Ron

[Schex3x]

The 117 kits use MLS head gaskets, so I use Cometic procedure.

Think I've done my last incremental torgue sequence. Recently worked on a rusty bitch 2000 RG. You know the ones where they creek while torquing regardless of lube used. No way in hell all four studs are at the same torque but it seems to run fine and no head gasket issues. Next time X torque and 90 degrees for a more uniform stretch on the studs.This has been proven over and over to be more exacting.  Gasket type matters a rat's so I really don't understand why Cometic feels the old school method is better.
Ron

On the Cometic procedure, mark the head bolts at the 14 ft lb step, marks will end up a little pass 90 degrees @42 ft lbs, gives you a visual of whats going on, and if torque is reached before it should comparing rotation of all the head bolts.

[Durwood]

Robin, I appreciate your input.

If the rest of you guys want to talk about head gasket procedures please start another thread.

Thanks Daren

[Durwood]

As I thought, we picked up on the left and lost a couple on the right. I am in the process of swapping pipes right now, took a break for a sandwich. Lol.
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[Durwood]

Exhaust change with the 460, here's where it landed.
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