M8 speed Limited + tq cut ?

[DeneFLHR]

Ok I can see from a safety standpoint why the new bikes are limited to 107 mph.
That I can understand but correct me if I'm wrong, is there also a spot in the power curve that also limits the tq?
Why would they cut the tq? I've seen many dyno charts (before people tune with the TTS or PV), that chops power somewhere around 4200 rpm. Is reducing tq the way that the speed is limited perhaps?

[Jamie Long]

Ok I can see from a safety standpoint why the new bikes are limited to 107 mph.
That I can understand but correct me if I'm wrong, is there also a spot in the power curve that also limits the tq?
Why would they cut the tq? I've seen many dyno charts (before people tune with the TTS or PV), that chops power somewhere around 4200 rpm. Is reducing tq the way that the speed is limited perhaps?

When power is cut at 4200 RPM in a dyno chart this is the speed limiter in the OEM calibration which comes in effect in 5th & 6th gear on the dyno. If you graph runs in 1st-4th gear on a stock bike it will run up to the rev limiter.

[ron1026]

What are the options for bypassing/ override/eliminating the speed override. The new bike runs so well in stock form and it just annoys me that it flattens out while pulling so strong up till that point .

[rigidthumper]

TTS and PV tuners can make this a non-issue.

[SLAATY]

 Which brings up a good question - w/out the limiter what'll these things do?

[PoorUB]

Which brings up a good question - w/out the limiter what'll these things do?

Looking at dyno charts the HP falls of pretty quick in stock form. A stock 2016 Rushmore should out run one on top end. The stock M8 cams are terrible for top end HP, but great for low end torque.

[HV]

Had a customer ask me...Does the V&H   FP3 Maps remove this as well ?   I have no idea as I dont use the FP3 s 

[HV]

So do the TTS and PV remove the speed limit or fool it somehow ?

[rigidthumper]

They simply change a setting in the software.  There's "Speed limiter hard fuel cutoff" by MPH/KPH for front and rear, and "Speed limiter soft throttle enable/disable" , all of which can be changed from the factory setting of 175 KPH/110 MPH to 255 KPH/160MPH.

[joe_lyons]

255 effectively just shuts it off in code

[mrmarr]

I still can not find a solid answer regarding flashing the stock tune. Can HD track any flash and void the warranty?

[hd06]

 I think Harley already crossed that bridge.

[joe_lyons]

I still can not find a solid answer regarding flashing the stock tune. Can HD track any flash and void the warranty?

If you have somebody that knows what they're doing that should not be an issue.

[cmashark]

I still can not find a solid answer regarding flashing the stock tune. Can HD track any flash and void the warranty?

When I dropped my bike off for the Stage 3 117, I asked the master tech and the service manager, if I have you install the stage 3 using all HD parts, and then I install a PV, copy the original tune, then make O2 bias changes to drop the afr down in closed loop... and then, let's say I spin the cam bearing or grenade a lifter. If I flashed the original tune back in, before dropping it off at the shop, could you tell I messed with it? Their response was, "I have nothing here that could see the computer was ever reflashed." I didn't dig any deeper on that...

[mrmarr]

thats the problem...nothing "here".
if they upload ecm info to mother HD for warranty ok, can HD detect the flash?
"I have nothing here that could see the computer was ever reflashed."

[rigidthumper]

Depends on the tuner.

[DTTJGlide]

Depends on the tuner "product" or tuner "person" doing the tune?

[HV]

Just to update ...I asked if the FP3 Maps had had an area to remove or bypass the TQ /SPeed management Limits.....I Went on the FP3 Web site and clicked the " Talk to an Expert " Link....The Expert said " the Speed Limits are built in to the Bike and can not be Changed " ...From that I Gather that the FP3 Maps have no option to change the TQ/ Speed Limits .... OR the Expert had no idea where they might be... 

[gonenorth]

Just to update ...I asked if the FP3 Maps had had an area to remove or bypass the TQ /SPeed management Limits.....I Went on the FP3 Web site and clicked the " Talk to an Expert " Link....The Expert said " the Speed Limits are built in to the Bike and can not be Changed " ...From that I Gather that the FP3 Maps have no option to change the TQ/ Speed Limits .... OR the Expert had no idea where they might be... 

  I'm having trouble getting my head around "built into the bike".  Based on what I know, the ECM (computer) controls all aspects of the motor fuel, spark timing, max rpms, volumetric efficiency, etc.  Maybe what he meant is this setting in the ECM can't be overwritten?

[HV]

I dont think he even knew where it was...I told him it is in the ECM Map and can be changed with the proper Software ...He never replied to me...so I left the Chat 

[joe_lyons]

Over their head.  You would need to talk with one of the actual techs and not just a phone/internet person.  I have found the same thing with DJ.

[rigidthumper]

Depends on the tuner "product" or tuner "person" doing the tune?

Yes- Some tuning products will allow a tuner person to edit the calibration number, so if the dealership looks, it will appear stock, stage 1,2,3,4 or whatever. I've even had things like "GOAWAY" as the cal ID, just for fun.
If the bike has to go back to the dealership for routine service, and they plug in Digital Tech (DT), all they will see is A41000547 ( which is SE stage 1 legal, use whatever you wish, up to 12 characters).

[HV]

Over their head.  You would need to talk with one of the actual techs and not just a phone/internet person.  I have found the same thing with DJ.

I agree Joe ......for now Ill just stay clear of the FP3 ...its just a So  So tuner any way .....although way ahead of the Power Commander and Fuel Crap

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

I have a friend Brother-in-Law) who represents five dealerships and attends the regional owner / technician Meetings. With the 2017 and later ECM's, everything is captured by the MoCo via the internet when its attached to the Digital Technician II.

Anything done while its attached can be retrieved by any Dealership who services the Motorcycle. The ECM's are "married" to that motorcycle until a replacement is needed. No more plug-n-play. They must be married / divorced by the DT-II.

Their reasoning was that the customer should be able to have his/her bike repaired or altered at any dealership, anywhere in the U.S. The EU has no such system as they were not affected by the settlement..... yet.

He said that many Dealerships are following the guidance and will not sell or alter anything addressed in the Law Suit Settlement Guidance regarding alternations where Exhaust Gas is concerned. And, some are "crossing the line" not being as stringent in their Shops.

He went as far as to tell me there was a technician somewhere who had a friend in the EU who was e-mailing him flash files and he got caught, fire on-the-spot and will never work for HD again.

Yet another dealer will sell you anything they have in stock. As HD guidance to the Dealerships was to return products "voluntarily". But, still should not be selling those products. He went into how the "hide" that but that's not for me to go into.

But, you know someone, somewhere, has found a way to do these modification such as speed and RPM.

On another note, there has been some discussion about using Bosh and dropping Delphi in the foreseeable future (2018/2019). He did say this was "hearsay" from another representative. it's almost impossible to find this out as those divisions can have no contact outside of their realm. 

I do know there is a myriad of aftermarket stuff out there. But, their abilities and limitations I do not know.

[BVHOG]

I worked with a local dealer here with the PV beta software last fall, the bike was flashed with a Street tuner, we pulled that map modified it, reloaded it and  when we looked into it with the digital tech it only came up as street tuned.   However if it was pulled it would be very obvious to see a modified map over a stock one if anyone with even a small amount of knowledge looked at it.
Now, as for the PV shutting off all speed limiters I have not seen that to be the case. A couple weeks back I tuned a cvo and after changing the software to the numbers specified in the PV software it still shut the throttle blade down to 90% at 5500 rpm and 80% at 5750 and so on.
Didn't really notice it with the stock cam but the bike was still pulling strong and the nose over was very noticeable with the T-man cam