M8 trans fluid leaking in primary

[VDeuce]

Shouldn't be too hard to drill/tap inspection cover for a pipe fitting and then adapt a vacuum gauge.  Could be an interesting test. I'd be surprised if HD doesn't do it already. Well then again, lol....

And in effect if what HD was saying about engine vacuum, then venting the primary with same fitting could be an interesting test.

[96349]

Mr. Cole said earlier this evening on another forum that he had a customers bike in the shop today for tuning and did modify his transmission to test out his theoretical fix to the transfer problem. He did not say what he modified. The customer is getting ready to go on a two week trip and he will prove whether or not his modification works or not. My guess is that it has something to do with modifying the tranny gasket so it breathes better and does not create a vacuum, but that is pure speculation on my part because I don't know "Potty mouth" from wild honey. I for one will be waiting patiently to see how this plays out because we are not hearing squat from the MOCO.

[harleytuner]

Mr. Cole said earlier this evening on another forum that he had a customers bike in the shop today for tuning and did modify his transmission to test out his theoretical fix to the transfer problem. He did not say what he modified. The customer is getting ready to go on a two week trip and he will prove whether or not his modification works or not. My guess is that it has something to do with modifying the tranny gasket so it breathes better and does not create a vacuum, but that is pure speculation on my part because I don't know "Potty mouth" from wild honey. I for one will be waiting patiently to see how this plays out because we are not hearing squat from the MOCO.

The good thing is after he did his modifications he put in a new cam and ran the bike through a full tune and there was no transfer at all. The owner sms hood buddies plan on a 6000 mile trip over the next 2 weeks so that should be a good test.  This bike was running one of Steve's prototype cams (TTS200) and in the initial tune it transferred a lot of fluid.  I talked with Steve last night,  he just wants his personal bikes to be fixed.  Ones been at the dealer since he discovered the problem right after he bought it almost a year ago.  California has a lemon law and he is very close to using it.  The bike had 90 miles on it when hee took it in.

[Herko]

...modifying the tranny gasket...

Interesting.

[hogpipes1]

My interest is in finding a solution! I have no investment in rubbing their nose in it even though I am not impressed.

Dog shits in the house they need there nose rubbed in it , along with a firm NO,  a slap on the nose with newspaper, and taken out side. "Potty mouth" outside  the  problem  is fixed , along with  a treat and good boy. H-D  is no different every time dealer ask when  i am going to buy a new bike . I let him know  what items the CO is  shitting all over  and i  don't like the smell. So no treats out of my wallet.

[Will-Run]

  If more did this. They would stop shitting where they eat.

[98fxstc]

...modifying the tranny gasket...

Interesting.

Darren's bike still going ok with his tranny gasket mod ?

[Durwood]

...modifying the tranny gasket...

Interesting.

Darren's bike still going ok with his tranny gasket mod ?

So far so good but still not enough time for us to call it whooped....

[98fxstc]

...modifying the tranny gasket...

Interesting.

Darren's bike still going ok with his tranny gasket mod ?

So far so good but still not enough time for us to call it whooped....

[96349]

I really, really hope that all this transfer of fluid just amounts to a modified gasket of sorts. That would be pretty easy to remedy by the service departments. If they have to fall all those transmissions into the shop for a complete tear down to modify them that will be a fricken nightmare and take a year or more to complete.
Still, not a peep from the  manufacturer. Not even so much as a "we are aware of the problem and are efforting to understand it  at this time". Hell, they are making new 2018 models as we speak. I guess it is possible that they will be having the same problem. Now I know what a mushroom feels like.

[Karl H.]

I tend to believe that the crank oil seal in combination with the improved crank breather might be the culprit (as stated by others already). That's why the company needs time for a smart fix imho. Venting the primary would surely help but...

Karl

[1FSTRK]

I tend to believe that the crank oil seal in combination with the improved crank breather might be the culprit (as stated by others already). That's why the company needs time for a smart fix imho. Venting the primary would surely help but...

Karl

At this point it is hard to tell but one thing for sure is that finding a way to stop the fliud transfer is different than finding and fixing the cause.

[harleytuner]

I tend to believe that the crank oil seal in combination with the improved crank breather might be the culprit (as stated by others already). That's why the company needs time for a smart fix imho. Venting the primary would surely help but...

Karl

I don't think that is it.  I know of one that had the primary fluid over halfway yoo on the main seal. No fluid pulled into the cases

[rbabos]

I tend to believe that the crank oil seal in combination with the improved crank breather might be the culprit (as stated by others already). That's why the company needs time for a smart fix imho. Venting the primary would surely help but...

Karl

I don't think that is it.  I know of one that had the primary fluid over halfway yoo on the main seal. No fluid pulled into the cases

In order to find what's going on once and for all is to slap a gauge in the primary. If the trans is actually pumping it will slowly register pressure. If it's the main seal, a vacuum will slowly develop. Either will take a while to show on the gauge.  What I did to test a shovel once was weld a barb fitting for a hose onto a spare derby bolt. Mind you the shovel didn't have blind holes in the outer cover for the bolts. In this case for a personal bike, a 1/16" hole will need to be drilled in the one blind hole the fitting is installed into. Pressure = trans issue, Vacuum = main seal. Then it can be narrowed down to one area only.
Ron

[harleytuner]

I tend to believe that the crank oil seal in combination with the improved crank breather might be the culprit (as stated by others already). That's why the company needs time for a smart fix imho. Venting the primary would surely help but...

Karl

I don't think that is it.  I know of one that had the primary fluid over halfway yoo on the main seal. No fluid pulled into the cases

In order to find what's going on once and for all is to slap a gauge in the primary. If the trans is actually pumping it will slowly register pressure. If it's the main seal, a vacuum will slowly develop. Either will take a while to show on the gauge.  What I did to test a shovel once was weld a barb fitting for a hose onto a spare derby bolt. Mind you the shovel didn't have blind holes in the outer cover for the bolts. In this case for a personal bike, a 1/16" hole will need to be drilled in the one blind hole the fitting is installed into. Pressure = trans issue, Vacuum = main seal. Then it can be narrowed down to one area only.
Ron

I agree completely.  I even said in here a, couple weeks ago to vent the primary separately and check out for vacuum.  I planned on testing the next one that comes in.  I was supposed to have another stage IV 114 coming but i think they found it sumping and are adressing that first.  I was going to simply drill and tap a hole in a spare derby for a barbed fitting and hook up a guage.  Other than simple tests like that I'm not going to look very far into the issue.  I still feel its HD's problem to figure out.  If I owned a m8 doing it i might be more apt to try to fix it. 

[WirgmanUSMC]

Just did a pre Sturgis fluid change today at 6,000 miles. I like to start out my long trips with fresh fluids across the board since it's a lot of hard riding. Noticed the tranny fluid was a bit short, then when I drained the primary it was certainly over full. I didn't measure the ounces, but after filling an empty quart bottle with the primary fluid, I still had a bit left and it topped off the quart bottle from the tranny.
Now I have been running this sucker HARD for the past 3,000 miles, and never thought to check the tranny levels, cause it wasn't leaking anywhere.
So, do y'all think I'm good for this trip? It'll probably be about 4,000 miles in two weeks. Maybe just check and top off the tranny from time to time? I didn't have any odd metal in the fluid when I changed it.
Also, how full can the primary get before that would cause issues?
I really wanted to take the M8 to Sturgis instead of my Dyna.

[hogpipes1]

Take the new bike , Me i'd take a qt of trans , if it's down a few oz's  add to it and drain a few out of  pri. P.I.A but it's under warranty . Don't let them dumb asses in milwaukee ruin your fun.

[WirgmanUSMC]

Well, I figured it wouldn't hurt so I did the "Durwood" mod this morning. I've been riding my Street Bob for the last couple days, so the fluids are all new and correct on my SG. Gonna try this gasket mod on for size during my Sturgis trip. I leave Sat and I'll do about 750 miles the first day then I'll check my levels and post back.

[103eagle]

Yo Durwood, any updates on your fix?

Eagle out

[Durwood]

Yo Durwood, any updates on your fix?

Eagle out

I have it on the dyno as I type.

[harleytuner]

Well the dealer called SC and told him to come pick up his bike.  The MoCo doesn't know what's wrong with it.  They've had the bike pretty much for the last 9 months straight and have tried everything they can come up with.  The last go around the bike transferred 22 oz.  They told him if to keep an eye on the levels and to bring it back when they are off and the dealer will set the proper levels free of charge. They are hoping to have something figured out within the next couple weeks.

[Hossamania]

Well that s very frustrating. If he brings it back three times in short order, with all the documented previous work, shouldn't it qualify for the lemon law?
And nice answer from the Moco. Yup, it's broken, we suck at figuring out what's wrong with our own product, so just ride it, but not too far, and keep bringing it back because it's real convenient for you.
The state attorney general would at least get a letter from me explaining the situation.

[hogpipes1]

Well the dealer called SC and told him to come pick up his bike.  The MoCo doesn't know what's wrong with it.  They've had the bike pretty much for the last 9 months straight and have tried everything they can come up with.  The last go around the bike transferred 22 oz.  They told him if to keep an eye on the levels and to bring it back when they are off and the dealer will set the proper levels free of charge. They are hoping to have something figured out within the next couple weeks.

Did  they give you a free loner.?  9 Mo's is just insane . Building bikes for 114 yrs and  can't  figure out what is wrong. Some engineers need to find a different line of work.

[harleytuner]

Well that s very frustrating. If he brings it back three times in short order, with all the documented previous work, shouldn't it qualify for the lemon law?
And nice answer from the Moco. Yup, it's broken, we suck at figuring out what's wrong with our own product, so just ride it, but not too far, and keep bringing it back because it's real convenient for you.
The state attorney general would at least get a letter from me explaining the situation.

He's already talked about considering the lemon law.  This bike was brought right at the release last year, the problem was discovered pretty much immediately with something like 30 miles on it. Other than the dealership having him pick it up to test ride it It's been at the dealership ever since. He actually had to purchase another bike to do Calibration development and product development with.  That bike also transfers fluid but he has been working on his own fix for it.  His modifications to that bike have slowed around 75% of the transfer.  He had another bike doing it (friends) that he went a little further with his mod on to test, that bike is currently on a 6,000 mile trip and should be back in the next 2 weeks, at that point Steve will know if his mod works.

This is a list of some of the things that the MoCo had the dealer do to the first bike.

- The vent system was check by pushing compressed air into the the oil fill and checking airflow out of the vent hose.
- Clutch slave removed check the rubber seal on it for cracks.
- Removed the vent cover plate and check gasket sealing and replace gasket.
- While vent plate remove inspect passageways.
- Removed clutch pushrod and inspect mainshaft hole for obstructions.
- Opened primary and check torque on Clutch basket and engine output shaft.
- Removed the primary chain and pieces to replace main seal and the sleeve it rides on, reassemble.

This was what was done at the last go at it.  They then had Steve take the pike on a ride and bring it back after 100 miles.  He brought it back after 80 miles in the mountains, 22 ounces were transferred.  That's the point the MoCo told him to come get his bike.  They don't know what else to try on it.

[harleytuner]

Well the dealer called SC and told him to come pick up his bike.  The MoCo doesn't know what's wrong with it.  They've had the bike pretty much for the last 9 months straight and have tried everything they can come up with.  The last go around the bike transferred 22 oz.  They told him if to keep an eye on the levels and to bring it back when they are off and the dealer will set the proper levels free of charge. They are hoping to have something figured out within the next couple weeks.

Did  they give you a free loner.?  9 Mo's is just insane . Building bikes for 114 yrs and  can't  figure out what is wrong. Some engineers need to find a different line of work.

No loaner.  He bought another bike that does it as well.