M8 trans fluid leaking in primary

[1FSTRK]

If the only changes to the 2016 transmission in Post #403 above were the two parts noted (2017 scissor gear/bearing) and if suspected lube transfer started as a result, then...why not re-install the 2016 gear and bearing...but one at a time if possible...and see what happens?

Case was changed as well. It's smaller

Chad we were talking about the 2016 bike in this post.

     I had 3 16's in this week 2 were find 1 lose 16oz from transmission in 500 mi. The one that lost the oil had transmission work to take the neutral rattle out. There were a couple of parts that were change to the 17 part #. Now it has the oil problem. I would not think its the motor seal. Its a twin cam not a M8.

lol...oops.  at least I didn't have a bunch of typos!!

What bothers me most is I can read the typo posts as good as the correct ones, I never was much good in english class.

[Bigs]

After reading this post I thought I would check my transmission. At 1,000 miles I changed it and filled it with 28 oz of Amsoil 75-110 severe duty and checked the level - OK. Now at 3,275 miles it was 8 oz down. Tomorrow it's going to the dealer. Also the rear drive belt goes from a tight 3/8 to over 3/4+ inches when I spin the rear wheel. I think Harley needs to fire some of the engineers and get better quality control.
   Bigs

[Nastytls]

While I dont doubt that they hire the cheapest possible engineering labor, I think the reason they get these problems is because they cut every conceivable corner in making these bikes. They do it because they know they can, people will continue to buy Harley's whether they're garbage or not.

[Hossamania]

I honestly don't think Harley's are garbage. I think they are a premium, comfortable, motorcycle. They try to incorporate modern features, but keep the original feel. And no manufacturer matches the paint, or fit and finish.
Yes, there are some pieces that do not seem to match the standard of the brand, but for the most part, they are pretty trouble free and dependable.

[Durwood]

I honestly don't think Harley's are garbage. I think they are a premium, comfortable, motorcycle. They try to incorporate modern features, but keep the original feel. And no manufacturer matches the paint, or fit and finish.
Yes, there are some pieces that do not seem to match the standard of the brand, but for the most part, they are pretty trouble free and dependable.

Agreed. If we would leave them alone there would be nothing to do but change oil and ride.

As with any new model there will be a few things to work out, like this fluid transfer issue, and I for one am glad to be in on the ground floor as we discover the absolute fix for it.

[Nastytls]

I don't think they're garbage either, I was just attempting to make a point about where I think their priorities are. The only people that think Harley's are "premium" are Harley people, every one else pretty much thinks they are crap.  The M8 is a pretty important machine and it's absolutely mind boggling that they would let this happen. I really wanted to add a Road Glide next to my BMW and my street bob but I don't think that will be happening any time soon after reading this thread.

[Mulligan]

just my 2 cts

i'm from Germany, Harley User for more than 20 years.
I bought recently a RGS (after 11 years Street Glide TC88) and put since March almost 10k KM on it. It is perfect for long distance yadda yadda yadda..... don't wanna repeat all that stuff again.

actual the RGS is standing at the dealership to get one of the first repair sets from Harley installed. Should be fixed end of week or latest next week. depends when the parts are rolling in. I'm looking really hard into this issue, checked the oil (with the dealer and mechanic) 4 times since June. evertytime some oz were missing. Oil got changed completely.

as soon as this issue is fixed on my bike, i'm going on a longer trip and check the fluids again.  I'll report.

But  i think harley will fix this issue (hope dies last), and i'm gonna enjoy the RGS again and again.

regards

Mulligan

[1FSTRK]

just my 2 cts

i'm from Germany, Harley User for more than 20 years.
I bought recently a RGS (after 11 years Street Glide TC88) and put since March almost 10k KM on it. It is perfect for long distance yadda yadda yadda..... don't wanna repeat all that stuff again.

actual the RGS is standing at the dealership to get one of the first repair sets from Harley installed. Should be fixed end of week or latest next week. depends when the parts are rolling in. I'm looking really hard into this issue, checked the oil (with the dealer and mechanic) 4 times since June. evertytime some oz were missing. Oil got changed completely.

as soon as this issue is fixed on my bike, i'm going on a longer trip and check the fluids again.  I'll report.

But  i think harley will fix this issue (hope dies last), and i'm gonna enjoy the RGS again and again.

regards

Mulligan

Interesting.

[Bigs]

Took my '17 RK to dealer to have them look at the transmission oil transfer problem and they said they never heard of that. Anyway they said bring it in and they will check the oil level and then for me to put on 500 miles and then they will check it again. In a few days I'll bring it back and let them check it again. I'll keep you updated on what happens.
   Bigs

[motorhogman]

Took my '17 RK to dealer to have them look at the transmission oil transfer problem and they said they never heard of that. Anyway they said bring it in and they will check the oil level and then for me to put on 500 miles and then they will check it again. In a few days I'll bring it back and let them check it again. I'll keep you updated on what happens.
   Bigs

Good Luck... "they said they never heard of that"   I guess that's a bit better than "they all do that"

[les]

Took my '17 RK to dealer to have them look at the transmission oil transfer problem and they said they never heard of that. Anyway they said bring it in and they will check the oil level and then for me to put on 500 miles and then they will check it again. In a few days I'll bring it back and let them check it again. I'll keep you updated on what happens.
   Bigs

Good Luck... "they said they never heard of that"   I guess that's a bit better than "they all do that"

I hope they took an accurate level reading of the primary fluid, and not just of the tranny fluid so they don't just have a narrow view of the tranny if the level goes down in it.

[HV]

Another new M8 in for a first service........No tranny oil on the Dip Stick......Primary over Flowing when opened up 

[ViseGrips]

 they all do that Brian. ...so far it's a frustrating pita for some riders and techs isn't it though.

[96349]

I feel really sorry for anybody who takes the plunge and buys a new 2018. The transmissions have not been fixed yet so they are more than likely to have the same issue as those of us who purchased new 2017 M8 and expected a warranty fix. I have been having the problem for 4 months now and nothing has been resolved yet. Others have been dealing with it for longer than I have. It seems like the engineering staff at the MOCO has been of the opinion that it was impossible for this to happen and just wrote the complaints off as nonsense. Now as the problem is beginning to be more widespread they are having to take a closer look at it. At first they were replacing motors, then they were replacing transmissions and now they are replacing main seals with the spacer. Still no fix. I believe initially motors and transmissions were being recalled because they wanted to actually open them up for analysis. Now they are sending out the seals and spacers because they think that is where the problem is. I have not heard where replacing the seal and spacer has stopped the problem on anybodies bike yet. So where do they go now? For those people who think that something is making the fluid level rise up to the clutch push rod level and then somehow push or pull it down to the primary case...I think you have it correct. But what is making this phenomenon happen. Venting maybe? In the meantime I will just continue to check my fluid level every few days to head off any pending disaster. I just can't believe my transmission was designed to operate very long when there is zero oil on the transmission stick.

[steve2100]

This problem is being took care of like our government kick the can down the road my bike is a year old this month so i got a year hope it gets solved.

[Bigs]

One of the service guys from a different dealership said that the vent hole on the transmission is to small and causing the problem. I guess Harley thinks drilling it out will solve the problem. I should find out tomorrow.
   Bigs

[hd06]

 The problems will be fixed with all issues, just takes time, just like the Twin Cam. What was it 2007 when Harley came out with hydraulic cam tensioners, but we still bought them. M8 will be the best motor Harley ever built, just work out a few bugs, probably catch some slack over that but what the hell. I have a RGS M8 and have issues with my transmission fluid in the primary. If I did it all over again I would still buy this bike.       

[PoorUB]

One of the service guys from a different dealership said that the vent hole on the transmission is to small and causing the problem. I guess Harley thinks drilling it out will solve the problem. I should find out tomorrow.
   Bigs

How big is the hole? Anything larger than a pin hole should be large enough. The only thing the vent needs to do is relieve air pressure as the primary and transmission warms up. It is not like there is a ton of air escaping.

[harleytuner]

One of the service guys from a different dealership said that the vent hole on the transmission is to small and causing the problem. I guess Harley thinks drilling it out will solve the problem. I should find out tomorrow.
   Bigs

How big is the hole? Anything larger than a pin hole should be large enough. The only thing the vent needs to do is relieve air pressure as the primary and transmission warms up. It is not like there is a ton of air escaping.

1/8" -3/16". Steve left his dipstick out and zip ties a rag over the fill hole and still transferred, I doubt it's a vent issue

[Durwood]

One of the service guys from a different dealership said that the vent hole on the transmission is to small and causing the problem. I guess Harley thinks drilling it out will solve the problem. I should find out tomorrow.
   Bigs

How big is the hole? Anything larger than a pin hole should be large enough. The only thing the vent needs to do is relieve air pressure as the primary and transmission warms up. It is not like there is a ton of air escaping.

1/8" -3/16". Steve left his dipstick out and zip ties a rag over the fill hole and still transferred, I doubt it's a vent issue

The gasket vent mod slowed mine way down, but wasn't a clean kill......As soon as I get time, the pressure/vacuum test will commence just to rule out the crank seal and spacer theory.

Next step, perform a modification in the side cover like FSG and 1FSTRK suggested......

[rbabos]

One of the service guys from a different dealership said that the vent hole on the transmission is to small and causing the problem. I guess Harley thinks drilling it out will solve the problem. I should find out tomorrow.
   Bigs

Good luck with that. I think he's grasping at straws for the solution. Air only requires the smallest of holes to be able to free vent as long as fluids don't bridge the hole and even that wouldn't cause pressure since the fluid would be pushed along in the hole.
Ron

[Pete_Vit]

Remembering back in the AMF days, wasn't there a problem with engine oil draining into the primary, and that was not a seal issue, that was a casting issue with the cases? maybe throwing seals at the issue is not the solution 

[harleytuner]

Remembering back in the AMF days, wasn't there a problem with engine oil draining into the primary, and that was not a seal issue, that was a casting issue with the cases? maybe throwing seals at the issue is not the solution 

Max brought up porous cases on HDF yesterday.  Wouldn't the fluid have to travel through the trans case and the inner primary both though for this to happen?  Remember, there is a void between the 2 cases for the pulley.  I could see trans fluid getting into the engine oil pan through the bottom of the trans case.  But I don't see how it could get into the primary other than through the clutch pushrod passage

[Pete_Vit]

Remembering back in the AMF days, wasn't there a problem with engine oil draining into the primary, and that was not a seal issue, that was a casting issue with the cases? maybe throwing seals at the issue is not the solution 

Max brought up porous cases on HDF yesterday.  Wouldn't the fluid have to travel through the trans case and the inner primary both though for this to happen?  Remember, there is a void between the 2 cases for the pulley.  I could see trans fluid getting into the engine oil pan through the bottom of the trans case.  But I don't see how it could get into the primary other than through the clutch pushrod passage

you're right, and I'd hate to think both cases are now made from piss porous  poor manufacturing but since no seal replacement has resolved the issue 100% I'm thinking anything is possible 

[Karl H.]

Remembering back in the AMF days, wasn't there a problem with engine oil draining into the primary, and that was not a seal issue, that was a casting issue with the cases? maybe throwing seals at the issue is not the solution 

Max brought up porous cases on HDF yesterday.  Wouldn't the fluid have to travel through the trans case and the inner primary both though for this to happen?  Remember, there is a void between the 2 cases for the pulley.  I could see trans fluid getting into the engine oil pan through the bottom of the trans case.  But I don't see how it could get into the primary other than through the clutch pushrod passage

Max ment a porous crank case acting like a bad oil seal imho

Karl