M8 trans fluid leaking in primary

[Durwood]

If the transfer of oil is caused by vacuum in primary, which seems to be the reason for replacing the seal & spacer, why not try venting the primary independent of the transmission?  From what I have read it sounds like transmission oil is being pulled thru the center of the transmission shaft where the clutch pushrod resides.  Apparently the MoCo feels that a vacuum is created by the engine, and if the seal is damaged, a vacuum exists in the primary.  AFAIK the primary is vented thru the transmission shaft and a vent in the top of the transmission.  If oil were to accumulate inside the transmission, around the open end of the shaft, then oil could be sucked into the primary if a vacuum existed.  My guess would be that if the primary was vented, that vacuum would no longer pull the oil.
On the other hand, if the oil is actually being pumped/forced thru the shaft by the clutch actuator, then venting the primary would not solve the problem.  JMO

It would be an easy test, but not very feasible of a fix for the MoCo

Fast test would be go to your local (fill in the blank) auto parts and buy a cheap PCV valve. Stick it on the trans vent hose so it can blow out but not suck in. Fixed

PCV valves are not sealed one way as many think. There's a calibrated leak on the closed side, based on the engine it's designed for.
Ron

Yes but it will work to change air flow in enough to confirm if the engine is pulling the oil from the trans.

I have a spare derby cover now to install a fitting to test pressure/vacuum in the primary, also could hook the gauge up to the trans vent to see if there is vacuum or pressure before installing the modified derby cover.

Fortunately I have been too busy of late to get back on this, but see a little daylight now.

[rbabos]

When cranks are out of spec. or oil will not stay in a given compartment change/raise the spec.

I sure wish that mentality would end up costing the MOCO more than a proper fix.

No kidding. Now 5cc per 5k is acceptable. That might work. Hell, they've brain washed us into thinking .005-.006 crank runout is now acceptable even though that was out of spec in the first HD engine ever built in the 1900s
Ron

[harleytuner]

When cranks are out of spec. or oil will not stay in a given compartment change/raise the spec.

I sure wish that mentality would end up costing the MOCO more than a proper fix.

Hell, they've brain washed us into thinking .005-.006 crank runout is now acceptable 
Ron

Specs good up to .012" now according to HD

[rbabos]

When cranks are out of spec. or oil will not stay in a given compartment change/raise the spec.

I sure wish that mentality would end up costing the MOCO more than a proper fix.

Hell, they've brain washed us into thinking .005-.006 crank runout is now acceptable 
Ron

Specs good up to .012" now according to HD

Yes, I know that but what I meant is some now accept .006 as being ok with that new Flintstone warranty avoidance tolerance of .012 brought about by all them 07 cranks taking a dump all over the place. That new tolerance save them a lot of coin as you know.
Ron

[hd06]

 Maybe the best thing is stop checking trans fluid if enough of them go bad they will do something about it.

[harleytuner]

When cranks are out of spec. or oil will not stay in a given compartment change/raise the spec.

I sure wish that mentality would end up costing the MOCO more than a proper fix.

Hell, they've brain washed us into thinking .005-.006 crank runout is now acceptable 
Ron

Specs good up to .012" now according to HD

Yes, I know that but what I meant is some now accept .006 as being ok with that new Flintstone warranty avoidance tolerance of .012 brought about by all them 07 cranks taking a dump all over the place. That new tolerance save them a lot of coin as you know.
Ron

I gotcha now.  I guess when the share holders care more about money than quality this is what you get.  17th

[metaliser]

 Trans, there is a fix !
OK, I know some of you might not believe me on this but I'm really telling the fact's here on this. I told in another thread on HDF that HD was going to buy back a CVO from a guy I knew because of the transfer of the Trans fluid to the primary, the engineer from HD came down and said, I'll buy your bike back but I can also fix it. The OP said how you know you can fix it and the engineer said, I'll guarantee this will.
So the OP said, since bikes are higher this year than ever he's willing to take a chance on his 2017 CVO fix. Guess what the fix was, C'mon guess, LOL.
The fix was a baffle that goes in the tranny, yep, the same ole baffle that everyone has had in the trans. for years. Seems HD decided that the baffle cost too much money to install in the new models that they'd save some doe buy not installing it, so you now you get more fluid being tossed around toward the clutch rod than if you had the baffle. They also went to another dealer to do the same thing.
HD ran a bike 25,000 miles with the known problem after the fix with no issue's after the baffle was installed. Now on to this. There will not be a recall because unknown to HD, some of the bikes may never experience this issue but if and when they do, HD will step up and fix it with the baffle that should have been in there all alone.
So there you go kids, the story of the transmission fluid transfer, honestly!

[1FSTRK]

Trans, there is a fix !
OK, I know some of you might not believe me on this but I'm really telling the fact's here on this. I told in another thread on HDF that HD was going to buy back a CVO from a guy I knew because of the transfer of the Trans fluid to the primary, the engineer from HD came down and said, I'll buy your bike back but I can also fix it. The OP said how you know you can fix it and the engineer said, I'll guarantee this will.
So the OP said, since bikes are higher this year than ever he's willing to take a chance on his 2017 CVO fix. Guess what the fix was, C'mon guess, LOL.
The fix was a baffle that goes in the tranny, yep, the same ole baffle that everyone has had in the trans. for years. Seems HD decided that the baffle cost too much money to install in the new models that they'd save some doe buy not installing it, so you now you get more fluid being tossed around toward the clutch rod than if you had the baffle. They also went to another dealer to do the same thing.
HD ran a bike 25,000 miles with the known problem after the fix with no issue's after the baffle was installed. Now on to this. There will not be a recall because unknown to HD, some of the bikes may never experience this issue but if and when they do, HD will step up and fix it with the baffle that should have been in there all alone.
So there you go kids, the story of the transmission fluid transfer, honestly!

So what is the part number for this mystery baffle?

[Prostock]

 

[Buglet]

    I think it,s the one by the throw out bearing. Look like they took it out in 14. Could be way the problem started on the 14's and later.   

[1FSTRK]

    I think it,s the one by the throw out bearing. Look like they took it out in 14. Could be way the problem started on the 14's and later.

Do you have a part number?

[Buglet]

   If it is true that Harley's  putting back in the baffle it's probable going to have a new #. I see the 18 S/T still have them in there. We have to see if they have the same problem as the touring bikes have.

[Bike31]

Is 37069-90A what's being called a baffle?

[rigidthumper]

Pretty sure they removed them with hydraulic clutch setup- still used with cable clutch models, to ensure throw out bearing lube.

[1FSTRK]

If indeed he is calling the oil slinger a baffle I would like to watch the factory guy install one in a hyd clutch set up.

[Bike31]

I have no experience in the clutch just was asking what "baffle" Metaliser referred to as an engineering fix above:

"The fix was a baffle that goes in the tranny, yep, the same ole baffle that everyone has had in the trans. for years. Seems HD decided that the baffle cost too much money to install in the new models that they'd save some doe buy not installing it, so you now you get more fluid being tossed around toward the clutch rod than if you had the baffle."

New models meaning hydraulic clutch equipped? I see that slinger part 37069-90A is still in the 2018 Softail trans with the manual clutch they offer.

[metaliser]

If indeed he is calling the oil slinger a baffle I would like to watch the factory guy install one in a hyd clutch set up.

Factory guy didn't install, tech's at the Dealership did but the Rep was there to observe.

[harleytuner]

They didn't use the slinger in the hydraulic setups way back in 2007, the pushrod goes right up to the slave cylinder in the side cover.  I'd like to know how they could add it back in unless they built it on the pushrod and installed the pushrod from the right side of the bike instead of through the clutch pack.

[hd06]

 Great now we have a fix we can go back to horsepower and torque   :bike

[metaliser]

They didn't use the slinger in the hydraulic setups way back in 2007, the pushrod goes right up to the slave cylinder in the side cover.  I'd like to know how they could add it back in unless they built it on the pushrod and installed the pushrod from the right side of the bike instead of through the clutch pack.

Not sure on that but as I stated the guy (REP) said he'd quarentee this would fix it and it was some sort of baffle. My friend talked to a tech. on the phone at HD and he told them that if you guys did this just to save a dime then that's sorry as hell. He said the phone went silent for a bit. LOL

[hd06]

  I'm game mine is in the shop for that problem. 

[PoorUB]

Cripes! 25 pages!

Shoot me if this was brought up, but does the pushrod protrude a bit from the mainshaft when the clutch is released? Maybe just find an o-ring or hard plastic washer that fits tight around the pushrod an slip it in place. If it falls off I doubt it would cause any damage and it may act as a slinger to keep oil from following the pushrod.

[96349]

I have been thinking the very same thing for about 4 months now. What you are describing is something akin to a labyrinth seal.

[FSG]

You cant seal the mainshaft until you provide the primary another breathing/vent path

Below is one of my pix of a trannie, but what is happening is that oil is getting into the slave cylinder cavity, it has no further path and as the slave pulsates due to the feedback from the S&A Clutch then it will get pumped through the mainshaft into the primary

The easy fix IMO is to modify the side plate the slave bolts to.

[PoorUB]

You cant seal the mainshaft until you provide the primary another breathing/vent path

I never said anything about sealing the passage. Just add a o-ring to act as an oil slinger at the end of the push rod, but I don't know if there is room for it.

Another option to correct it, at least at the manufacturing level, it to move the release mechanism to the primary cover, put in a solid main shaft and separate primary vent.

Or my preference, ditch the three separate holes and build a unitized engine and tranny like the rest of the world does, think V-Rod