Question: SE Pro Tuner on stock 107 stock motor

[Bigs]

Will a SE Pro Tuner on a stock '17 107 motor be worthwhile. I was thinking of just a stage 1 download and what affect it might have on performance. Thanks in advance for your input.
   Bigs

[FXDBI]

Will a SE Pro Tuner on a stock '17 107 motor be worthwhile. I was thinking of just a stage 1 download and what affect it might have on performance. Thanks in advance for your input.
   Bigs

Best check with the dealer to see if it will void the warranty before carrying on.  Bob

[Hossamania]

Will a SE Pro Tuner on a stock '17 107 motor be worthwhile. I was thinking of just a stage 1 download and what affect it might have on performance. Thanks in advance for your input.
   Bigs

Best check with the dealer to see if it will void the warranty before carrying on.  Bob

We know the FP3 won't be covered...

[Ohio HD]

Will a SE Pro Tuner on a stock '17 107 motor be worthwhile. I was thinking of just a stage 1 download and what affect it might have on performance. Thanks in advance for your input.
   Bigs

Best check with the dealer to see if it will void the warranty before carrying on.  Bob

We know the FP3 won't be covered...

Neither will the SE Pro, Harley pulled them from the shelves.......     

[PoorUB]

Will a SE Pro Tuner on a stock '17 107 motor be worthwhile. I was thinking of just a stage 1 download and what affect it might have on performance. Thanks in advance for your input.
   Bigs

Bigs, if you have not heard, mother HD is watching closely on mods on the 2017 model in cooperation with the EPA. Only EPA approved modifications will not void warranty so anthing other that the HD EPA approved upgrades will not affect warranty. Any mod not in HD's catalog and you are on your own. Read the other threads here on the M8 and you will see that HD is voiding warranty easily.

[Bigs]

I guess I should of said SE Pro STREET Tuner P/N 4100008C 50-state U.S. EPA compliant.
   Bigs

[K4FXD]

Wonder if the EPA is going to go after the shops that "tamper" with pollution control crap.

I was hoping the current administration would dump the EPA altogether.

[Ohio HD]

If there were no EPA, we'd all be gagging on thick smog. If your old enough, you know this. In China, 2009, I couldn't even see the sun clearly in the industrial cites. Just like LA, New York, etc. was in the 1970's.

[Hossamania]

I agree, we do need the EPA. Sometimes it seems they overstep their boundaries, but the clean air and clean exhausts we have are a direct result of their work.
Most people don't care to modify their machines to run better (or properly),  so they don't care that the EPA keeps a few from improving theirs. And they feel the factory knows what they are doing. For our own good.

[K4FXD]

Not to get into politics, but I hate that any UN-elected bureaucrat or agency, can make law with no vote by elected officials.

Fine, keep the EPA but make congress VOTE on any proposed regulations.  We would still have clean air but not all the BS.

I am old enough to remember lake Erie on fire.

[BVHOG]

I agree, we need the EPA, just not 15 thousand of them.

[Bigs]

How about the original question? Will a SE Pro Street Tuner, the EPA approved one be any benefit to a stock new 107 stock Milwaukee 8.
   Bigs

[rigidthumper]

Sure!  While HD uses the same components on all the air or water, or oil cooled, models, there is always differences in air flow, or fuel flow through the injectors, or "stack up tolerances", etc, so every bike runs better when the map is adjusted for the specific components on that bike, even if those components are stock.

[ultraswede]

How about the original question? Will a SE Pro Street Tuner, the EPA approved one be any benefit to a stock new 107 stock Milwaukee 8.
   Bigs

Yes, if the tuning device can adjust the timing maps.
The fuel maps still need to be in CL to comply with emissions, so nothing (or not a lot) to gain there.

[PoorUB]

Seems to me the current tuners from HD are EPA compliant, and very limited on adjustment. The guys over in AFR and Tuning would know for sure.

[rigidthumper]

Street tuner currently offers +/- 4% VE change in closed loop areas, and +/- 10% VE open loop areas, along with +/- 3° advance closed loop areas, and from -0°+2°CL, up to +/- 6° in the OL areas should be adequate enough for the stock components. Maybe not super numbers, but should be better than when it left York.

[Sunny Jim]

In OZ, we are only offered the super tuner( orange). It works quite well.

[92flhtcu]

A tad off topic, but related to some of the comments
i have had dealers with engine warranty issues that were covered with aftermarket headers, mufflers, air cleaners, FP3, power vision, TTS
99% of if it is covered or not is how the bike owner's attitude is, how the dealers attitude is and how the area rep from the MoCo is. I have overheard some interesting discussions between dealer and Rep that swung the customers way

[FXDBI]

A tad off topic, but related to some of the comments
i have had dealers with engine warranty issues that were covered with aftermarket headers, mufflers, air cleaners, FP3, power vision, TTS
99% of if it is covered or not is how the bike owner's attitude is, how the dealers attitude is and how the area rep from the MoCo is. I have overheard some interesting discussions between dealer and Rep that swung the customers way

The past is the past its a whole different game since the EPA agreement last year when they pulled the tuners.  The motor company made a deal with them, part of that deal was to VOID warranty on bikes with non EPA approved parts and tunes. I fail to understand how people can really expect doing anything else but dealer approved work meeting EPA requirements should be covered on warranty.   Bob

[PoorUB]

Yep, the warranty game changed with the 2017 models.

[harleytuner]

I've tuned a few 17's worth the approved street tuner.  I was able to get decent gains on all of them over the canned MAP but every one of them needed adjustments outside of the limits I had to work with.  I would stick with just slip one and if cams I would use the DR cams.  If you want an aftermarket exhaust and/or cams then you just threw gouge warranty out the window anyways,  in that case I would go TTS

[92flhtcu]

I was referring to only 2017 M8 warranties that I have come across in my travels.
I'll say again, I've seen several get handled that "officially" should have been voided, but it really comes down to how it is presented by the dealer

[harleytuner]

I was referring to only 2017 M8 warranties that I have come across in my travels.
I'll say again, I've seen several get handled that "officially" should have been voided, but it really comes down to how it is presented by the dealer

If warranty is the concern I wouldn't take the risk and just use the Street tuner and EPA parts.  I do know there is some aftermarket parts getting EPA and CARB tested and if they pass they will be EPA compliant, but i'm not sure if HD will warranty bikes with these parts.  I also know there is some aftermarket tunes that that are getting tested as well.  but again, not sure how HD will handle this.  We'll have the results of the certification testing pretty soon (at least with the products i'm involved with)

[HD/Wrench]

I was referring to only 2017 M8 warranties that I have come across in my travels.
I'll say again, I've seen several get handled that "officially" should have been voided, but it really comes down to how it is presented by the dealer

If warranty is the concern I wouldn't take the risk and just use the Street tuner and EPA parts.  I do know there is some aftermarket parts getting EPA and CARB tested and if they pass they will be EPA compliant, but i'm not sure if HD will warranty bikes with these parts.  I also know there is some aftermarket tunes that that are getting tested as well.  but again, not sure how HD will handle this.  We'll have the results of the certification testing pretty soon (at least with the products i'm involved with)

You bring up a great point with the 50 state legal aftermarket parts coming HD will have to honor the warranty. As it follows in the tracks of others before it( outside of hd) . But what is on paper and what they do has never been the same . Game changer for sure .  Will have to see how they respond to it as well the warranty- extended part will need to be re written, as currently it has been the BS deal if the dealer did the entire kit it was ok but if you did it well nope ..  Lots of BS when it comes to warranty and HD . Always has hope that changes .

[hattitude]

You bring up a great point with the 50 state legal aftermarket parts coming HD will have to honor the warranty.

I'm not sure that's true......

Outside of basic service & maintenance (covered by MM Act) or restrictions imposed by the EPA consent decree, Harley gets to decide what performance parts will/will not void their warranty....

Getting an EPA/CARB approved tune and/or performance part just releases the owner and/or the shop doing the mods from breaking the law. It doesn't mean MoCo HAS TO accept the tune/part for warranty repair...

Image if you built a custom motor for a guy, he decided to add a part that absolutely didn't fit with your build, caused problems, and then damage to the motor. Just so happens the part had EPA/CARB certification.... what would you do if he then demanded you honor the warranty you gave him on the motor because it was an EPA part?

I put a CARB certified supercharger on my '04 Z06, that had an extended warranty. They fixed a couple things after the install, but they had nothing to do with the powertrain. They pretty much told me not to bring it in with a powertrain problem, cause they wouldn't cover it.... I expected no less.... On the flip side, I had to show the SMOG shop the executive orders for my shorty headers and the supercharger.... but then it passed SMOG with flying colors every time!