Question: SE Pro Tuner on stock 107 stock motor

[HD/Wrench]

why if you installed a HD EPA kits is ok but not the next guys .. BS you cannot have it both ways.  EPA is EPA  Unless they re write the warranty they are going ot have to deal with it.. As for cars I installed many things that are EPA legal and never had a issue with the warranty from the manufacture.   I know what you are saying but push to come to shove , I think we are going to see some huge changes in the not so far future.

I am not a lawyer and make no claims to be one. But I did get one involved with a warranty issue on my Escalade over wheels and tires . They came up with some BS on the factory wheels I had where the issues over ABS.. In the end they fixed it and paid for my fees as well . He educated me on what they can and cannot do. and IF an item is not solely listed to be used then well they have to honor it . EPA tune etc etc .. provide it falls under non racing parts loosely termed .. 

Its like a CIA unit , so now you could look at it this way . You can only use a HD air cleaner??  or muffler  ??  where does it stop ..  I am sure we are going to see very soon . As there are several EPA packages that are due to be released.

I had a pro charger on my Caddie and as well on my charger.. Never had one issue. and it had to pass smog in AZ at the time as well . Yes had to have the paper work but never warranty issues..

BTW that did surprise many people.. all four tires smoking off the line..   

[PoorUB]

Getting an EPA/CARB approved tune and/or performance part just releases the owner and/or the shop doing the mods from breaking the law. It doesn't mean MoCo HAS TO accept the tune/part for warranty repair...

I agree. I don't know why HD would want to honor warranty on a modified engine, even if it just pipes and/or mufflers.

[rigidthumper]

JMO;  I wouldn't expect HD to warranty my brand X CARB/EPA approved parts, but they shouldn't deny claims on the rest of the bike.  When the SE legal versions don't void warranty, then brand X legal versions shouldn't, either. If the part is EPA approved, then the warranty should stay intact-as far as the EPA mandate goes.

[harleytuner]

Put me down for doubting the will honor it.   The decree says they won't honor anything non-compliant, but it doesn't say they will honor anything compliant neither.  When it was written and signed there was no after market with compliant components. 

[PoorUB]

But Harley does not test and supply aftermarket parts. The difference between SE and everyone else is the MoCo tested and supplies SE. Just because a aftermarket parts it EPA approved does not mean it was installed and tuned properly.

I have never understood why HD still honored warranty on modified engines to begin with.

[CndUltra88]

Wonder if the EPA is going to go after the shops that "tamper" with pollution control crap.

I was hoping the current administration would dump the EPA altogether.

Why are they going after us Motorcycle Enthusists when the idiots in those Coal roller Trucks are pouring fuel and soot and other noxious crap in to the air with their ( insert tuner brand here )?
FFS, those idiots are easier to spot and target if they (epa) chose to be proactive.
My Bad for rationally thinking this evening.
Rob

[hattitude]

why if you installed a HD EPA kits is ok but not the next guys .. BS you cannot have it both ways.  EPA is EPA  Unless they re write the warranty they are going ot have to deal with it..

I'm not a lawyer either, but I have dealt with legal issues my entire career.

The HD Limited warranty is a contract between the MoCo and the buyer. The MoCo writes the contract and the purchaser accepts it if they choose to buy the vehicle.... You can negotiate price, equipment, and service, but not warranty..

The MoCo doesn't have to re-write their Warranty, because they do not reference EPA approval as the standard for accepted aftermarket/performance parts. The only mention of EPA and warranty is a stipulation in the consent decree, specifically mentioning tuners..

The MoCo uses the word "approved" in the warranty, which gives them the ability to decide what is approved or not. They cover their butts in 2 places in the written warranty.

From the warranty, under "Exclusions";

This limited warranty will not apply to any motorcycle.

4. Which has off-road or competition parts installed to enhance performance, a trailer hitch, or has other unapproved modifications (even if these modifications include genuine Harley-Davidson parts and accessories that are not approved for use on your motorcycle). These modifications may void all or parts of your new motorcycle limited warranty. See an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer for details.

From the warranty, under "Other Limitations";

This limited warranty does not cover:

4. Defects or damage to the motorcycle caused by alterations outside of Harley-Davidson's factory specifications or caused by alterations or use of parts or accessories not approved for the make and model year of your motorcycle.

Again, I'm no lawyer, but I wouldn't try to take them to court if they decide an EPA approved part is not approved for the purpose of their warranty.....

[PoorUB]

From the warranty, under "Exclusions";

This limited warranty will not apply to any motorcycle.

4. Which has off-road or competition parts installed to enhance performance, a trailer hitch, or has other unapproved modifications (even if these modifications include genuine Harley-Davidson parts and accessories that are not approved for use on your motorcycle). These modifications may void all or parts of your new motorcycle limited warranty. See an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer for details.

From the warranty, under "Other Limitations";

This limited warranty does not cover:

4. Defects or damage to the motorcycle caused by alterations outside of Harley-Davidson's factory specifications or caused by alterations or use of parts or accessories not approved for the make and model year of your motorcycle.

Again, I'm no lawyer, but I wouldn't try to take them to court if they decide an EPA approved part is not approved for the purpose of their warranty.....

Pretty clear that the MoCo can void your warranty for about anything!

Looks like I should remove my trailer hitch when not towing!!

[tomcat64]

I was referring to only 2017 M8 warranties that I have come across in my travels.
I'll say again, I've seen several get handled that "officially" should have been voided, but it really comes down to how it is presented by the dealer

If warranty is the concern I wouldn't take the risk and just use the Street tuner and EPA parts.  I do know there is some aftermarket parts getting EPA and CARB tested and if they pass they will be EPA compliant, but i'm not sure if HD will warranty bikes with these parts.  I also know there is some aftermarket tunes that that are getting tested as well.  but again, not sure how HD will handle this.  We'll have the results of the certification testing pretty soon (at least with the products i'm involved with)

so far they have been flagging VIN's that have been tunes with TTS,, 2017's only.. flagged VIN does not mean voided,, but it does require a call from the dealer to get warranty approved..

[wiliturk]

[/quote]

Pretty clear that the MoCo can void your warranty for about anything!

Looks like I should remove my trailer hitch when not towing!!
[/quote]

I would suggest you do that. I was discussing all this tuner and exhaust stuff with a mechanic at a local H-D shop. He told he had no doubt that they would void your warranty if you used an expressly forbidden part or software. He went on to relate a story about the dealer rep walking thru the service dept. checking things out when he came upon a customers bike with a trailer hitch. He took down the vin went to his computer and voided his warranty on the spot. When the owner came in to pick up his bike from a warranty repair they had to tell him he no longer had any warranty and he had to pay the bill himself. The dealership owner tried to talk to the rep to no avail. They ended up eating the bill. But his warranty was gone. He went on to say the hitch was a Harley part but is clearly says the bikes are not a tow vehicle in the warranty.

[HV]

The Trailer Hitch would not be a Harley Part ....they dont make one

[rigidthumper]

You know guys believe if a dealership sells/installs a part, then it's Harley...