Timing....when does it set adaptive changes?

[07heri]

This is more of a tech question than a "how do I fix" question.

Here's a example.  Fill up and head out for 3 hours.  ECM senses a knock and pulls 2* and slowly tapers it back in.  20 minutes later senses the same knock and repeats itself.  It does this, lets say, 10 times over 3 hours.  No big deal.  It's doing what it's trained to do. 

At what point does it set an adaptive timing number that get's stored? 

What's the protocol when the ECM says "I've had enough" and sets a stored timing number? 

What dictates whether or not a timing knock gets set as a stored timing number?   Does it sense and pull a certain number of times during one key cycle to set some adaptive number?

Based on my logs the ECM is interpolating timing numbers.  Does it set the same number in a block of cells or is it smart enough to set a number in one cell?

[K4FXD]

No way to answer without knowing the ECM in use.

[07heri]

No way to answer without knowing the ECM in use.

Pick one.  Any stock one work for an answer.

[07heri]

Let me rephrase this.  Does the ECM ever pull timing and then create and store a different timing number?  Does the ECM do some adaptive timing changes like it does with the VE's?  Or does it pull timing and slowly feed it back in and never create its own numbers?

[Gordon61]

Their a tough lot 

Here's a thread on what you may be after ...better than me regurgitating what WinPV says, it's covered in Coyote's post on page 2

EDIT: lol ...helps if I give the url I suppose

http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=31975.0

[wolf_59]

Using the TTS tuner there is an Adaptive Knock Retard setting that once activated will hold on to the changes until the next key off/on cycling

[Gordon61]

WinPV software says that it decreases at each key off ...not that it resets??

[wolf_59]

This is out of the TTS tuning guide

[Gordon61]

Talking about the TTS guide then, this is what the version 2.0 Feb 04 2015 says ...and the discussion in the old thread covers it off more fully.

[wolf_59]

i remember that one also

[Gordon61]

So unless a real professional with expert knowledge comes along (as were discussing the matter in the thread I linked to) us folks that can only read are probably not helping the op

sorry 07heri, I'll shut up now 

[07heri]

So unless a real professional with expert knowledge comes along (as were discussing the matter in the thread I linked to) us folks that can only read are probably not helping the op

sorry 07heri, I'll shut up now 

Thanks.  The reason I was asking is because I was working on some knocks after I got the VE's dialed.  I was looking for an explanation of what the ECM needs to see to start a change in the numbers.  Does it need to see the same knock X amount of times, in the same area, during the same key cycle, to start a long term correction action. 

Reason being, if I go out and run a log to check for knocks, then I pull some timing to correct the knock, I wasn't sure if what I pulled was in addition to what the ECM has already set as long term.  So if the ECM is correcting by reducing 2 degrees long term and then I look at the log and reduce 2 there's essentially 4 degrees being removed. 

Based on the literature out there it seems there's no clear guidance on whether one key cycle zeros it out or just reduces the correction.  It would be nice to be able to zero it out on a reflash like when the VE's ask to reset.  This way, on the next run to log knocks I'd know if I'm working with a clean timing table or if I'm working with a timing table AND an adaptive profile hiding in the background.  I don't think a degree or two will make much difference but I don't want to pull more than I have to.

[Gordon61]

I thought I'd read that clearing of the adaptive values included the knock adaptive as well, don't know for sure tho.

As the TTS tuning guide suggests, I have the knock adaptive table set to all zeros, while I run logs and tune the spark tables ...that seemed to get rid of those confusing persistent 0.25 and 0.5 knock values that fill your logs after a significant knock event, and makes it much easier to see the wood from the trees.