Tuner debate

[rmc115]

Ready to stage 1 my m8. I went to to the demo rides yesterday and rode a stage 1 107, stock 114 and a stage 4 114. Man the stage 4 runs good, but i do not need it. I was impressed with the stage 1 difference but don't like the sound of the street cannons. I think i will do fuel moto slip ons and hi flow a/c. I know the street tuner is crap but want to keep warranty.  What is the latest on tuners out there. Is any thing removable without a trace? I own a power vision and had intended to use that till the debate that they could tell the ecm had been flashed came up. Thought about going to power commander v but looks like you have to leave the 02's unhooked. any thoughts?  Mike

[Durwood]

Ready to stage 1 my m8. I went to to the demo rides yesterday and rode a stage 1 107, stock 114 and a stage 4 114. Man the stage 4 runs good, but i do not need it. I was impressed with the stage 1 difference but don't like the sound of the street cannons. I think i will do fuel moto slip ons and hi flow a/c. I know the street tuner is crap but want to keep warranty.  What is the latest on tuners out there. Is any thing removable without a trace? I own a power vision and had intended to use that till the debate that they could tell the ecm had been flashed came up. Thought about going to power commander v but looks like you have to leave the 02's unhooked. any thoughts?  Mike

A tuner that knows how can use the PV without a trace.

[harleytuner]

Same with TTS. You can reflash the stock cal back in.  FYI, technically  using the FM slip one will void the warranty as well.

[Durwood]

Same with TTS. You can reflash the stock cal back in.  FYI, technically  using the FM slip one will void the warranty as well.

With Power Vision a re-flash isn't required, plus the ECM access with PV is unmatched by any other tuner and also doesn't lock the ECM.

[harleytuner]

Same with TTS. You can reflash the stock cal back in.  FYI, technically  using the FM slip one will void the warranty as well.

With Power Vision a re-flash isn't required, plus the ECM access with PV is unmatched by any other tuner and also doesn't lock the ECM.

I use PV all the time.  There is a very good reason TTS locks the ECM.

[rmc115]

I have used both the tts and the pv. Decided to go with pv because i change bikes every 2 years and can re license. What became of the earlier discussions of a bit fuse that showed a ecm had been flashed? The FM slip ons say they are 50 state compliant replacement part.  Mike

[Durwood]

Same with TTS. You can reflash the stock cal back in.  FYI, technically  using the FM slip one will void the warranty as well.

With Power Vision a re-flash isn't required, plus the ECM access with PV is unmatched by any other tuner and also doesn't lock the ECM.

I use PV all the time.  There is a very good reason TTS locks the ECM.

I have had 2 bikes recently that were tuned with TTS, the customers did not have the VCI and ended up having to buy a new ECM.

BVBOB made the best analogy yet, "It's like buying a car with locking lug nuts and NO key".

The OP already owns the Power Vision, he just needs to locate a tuner that is fluent with it.

[Durwood]

I have used both the tts and the pv. Decided to go with pv because i change bikes every 2 years and can re license. What became of the earlier discussions of a bit fuse that showed a ecm had been flashed? The FM slip ons say they are 50 state compliant replacement part.  Mike

All that the dealer can see is the calibration part number, as long as you have the correct number you are golden.

I am friends with the lead tech and SM at my local dealer, and we have confirmed this.

[98fxstc]

I have had 2 bikes recently that were tuned with TTS, the customers did not have the VCI and ended up having to buy a new ECM.

An emergency unlock file is available for download from the TTS website
My understanding is that any TTS vci can be used to flash an MTE unlock cal to a bike

However, I do agree that locking the ecm is a major liability with the TTS
Been through all sorts of drama replacing a faulty ecm
choices are buying a new TTS unit as well
or have the bike down for 3 months while you ship the ecm and the vci off to the one person who can fix it for you and wait in line

[harleytuner]

I have used both the tts and the pv. Decided to go with pv because i change bikes every 2 years and can re license. What became of the earlier discussions of a bit fuse that showed a ecm had been flashed? The FM slip ons say they are 50 state compliant replacement part.  Mike

All that the dealer can see is the calibration part number, as long as you have the correct number you are golden.

I am friends with the lead tech and SM at my local dealer, and we have confirmed this.

This is true but the ECM also stores the date and time of the last flash. At this point digital tech doesn't have the capability to retrieve that info but I would bet it is coming.   Mastertune also allows you to change the calibration ID number and is already ahead of the game on when DT has the ability to read the date stamp.  I agree that it sucks when a customer loses the dongle or someone buys a used bike and doesn't get it.  SC has a very good reason for locking it and I can't fault him for that.  If others in this industry hadn't stolen his work it wouldn't be at this point but that's the way it goes.  For future reference thigh,  if you ever have a customer locked out you can send the ECM in toTTS and he will unlock it for no charge.

[BVHOG]

I have used both the tts and the pv. Decided to go with pv because i change bikes every 2 years and can re license. What became of the earlier discussions of a bit fuse that showed a ecm had been flashed? The FM slip ons say they are 50 state compliant replacement part.  Mike

All that the dealer can see is the calibration part number, as long as you have the correct number you are golden.

I am friends with the lead tech and SM at my local dealer, and we have confirmed this.

So exactly what is this "very good reason" for locking the ecm?

This is true but the ECM also stores the date and time of the last flash. At this point digital tech doesn't have the capability to retrieve that info but I would bet it is coming.   Mastertune also allows you to change the calibration ID number and is already ahead of the game on when DT has the ability to read the date stamp.  I agree that it sucks when a customer loses the dongle or someone buys a used bike and doesn't get it.  SC has a very good reason for locking it and I can't fault him for that.  If others in this industry hadn't stolen his work it wouldn't be at this point but that's the way it goes.  For future reference thigh,  if you ever have a customer locked out you can send the ECM in toTTS and he will unlock it for no charge.

[harleytuner]

I have used both the tts and the pv. Decided to go with pv because i change bikes every 2 years and can re license. What became of the earlier discussions of a bit fuse that showed a ecm had been flashed? The FM slip ons say they are 50 state compliant replacement part.  Mike

All that the dealer can see is the calibration part number, as long as you have the correct number you are golden.

I am friends with the lead tech and SM at my local dealer, and we have confirmed this.

So exactly what is this "very good reason" for locking the ecm?

This is true but the ECM also stores the date and time of the last flash. At this point digital tech doesn't have the capability to retrieve that info but I would bet it is coming.   Mastertune also allows you to change the calibration ID number and is already ahead of the game on when DT has the ability to read the date stamp.  I agree that it sucks when a customer loses the dongle or someone buys a used bike and doesn't get it.  SC has a very good reason for locking it and I can't fault him for that.  If others in this industry hadn't stolen his work it wouldn't be at this point but that's the way it goes.  For future reference thigh,  if you ever have a customer locked out you can send the ECM in toTTS and he will unlock it for no charge.

to keep the others from stealing your base calibration.  With products like the Power Vision that are capable of pulling whatever tune currently on the bike off and allowing them to be edited and saved as a PV tune.  Yes it's happened which is why TTS is doing what they are. 

[Herko]

...If others in this industry hadn't stolen his work....

I didn't know this old worn out drumbeat had any drumming left in it.

Glad Power Vision has the confidence to maintain the focus and innovation to enable the offering of very useful tools/tables that other ECM access devices do not offer.

[Coyote]

...If others in this industry hadn't stolen his work....

I didn't know this old worn out drumbeat had any drumming left in it.

Glad Power Vision has the confidence to maintain the focus and innovation to enable the offering of very useful tools/tables that other ECM access devices do not offer.

[HV]

...If others in this industry hadn't stolen his work....

I didn't know this old worn out drumbeat had any drumming left in it.

Glad Power Vision has the confidence to maintain the focus and innovation to enable the offering of very useful tools/tables that other ECM access devices do not offer.

[Jim Bronson]

My tuner recently changed from TTS to PV. He said it was because PV gave him access to more tuning parameters than TTS. I wasn't sure exactly what he meant by that, but the results speak for themselves. I've got miles of smiles.