HarleyTechTalk

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 7/31/2008 12:27 PM
 
.......comparing those numbers to the known factors on your [FXR2] and knowing what you know about my engine build, what do you think? I checked with Comp Cams and the power band on the 5015 is from 2200-6200, sweet spot seems to be at about 3200 and pulls really hard from there. That will change slightly with the exhaust system change that should help the low end some.

We are thinking about going with the 3.08 ratio, but are concerned about the bike being a real dog around town. Our Dyno guy (in Sturgis), says once he tunes the bike changing the ratio will not affect the engine tune, only what gear I'm in and what rpm's I'm turning. I sent Todd an e-mail and am still waiting for a reply on the six speed option.

Ok you have a 1993 FXLR which you may decide upon having 3.08 gearing.....thus the question is what cam with the engine you have would be appropriate [in my opinion]....in thinking about the Comp Cam with a sweet spot around 3,200 and pulling hard from there up to 6,200 has no value for me, this particular cam I would find quite frustrating as it would be coming on too late for my riding style......I want my bike to pull hard quicker than that...and I would never see 6,200 RPMS either.....my philosophy is about how quick can I get from 0-40 after that then the bike will take over anyway....I am also not worried about what the bike would be doing about "pulling" beyond 85 - 90 mph.....as I barely see that mph except for maybe 1-3% of my riding time.....IF your motivation is to "out run" someone else or something else thus the need to go as fast as you can.....you are on the wrong bike to begin with.....you should be riding a Yamaha R-1 with some special things done to it...or something like that....I am just saying you are on an FXR...it's a "touring" "light" "cruiser" type of bike....

Specifically, my bike is NOT a real dog around town with final gearing of 2.925 with a V~Thunder 3010 cam  along with the rest of the engine being stock, it has great seat of the pants "feel" for pulling low end and dies out at the upper end a bit....but it suits my riding style very well....

Its obvious you arrived at some decisions because the primary decision of your engine has been made, next your decision with your gearing sounds like it is being made as well...with the 3.08 final gearing ratio....and the reason you are selecting this is for highway RPM's, right? after all this has been a very important motivating factor for you....not to "feel" a buzziness at highway speed.......the way to keep this in check is in part by changing your final gearing pattern, that's the bottom line or else you would of kept the 3.37 stock gearing that you started with.  With your engine modifications you probably with the 3.37 gearing would have found yourself shifting quite early....with the first and second gear running out and winding up too fast.....and because of the type of modification you have done to your engine the need for the "lower" 3.37 gearing is really unnecessary, so now the question is how do you manipulate everything to get to where you desire to be, and I obviously agree with you that the final decison would indeed be the cam....

I believe I would give serious consideration to putting in an Andrews Ev 27. It's a bit later in coming on as compared to the V~Thunder 3010 but it's sweet spot isn't as late as 3200 RPM's which makes for a more responsive bike.....it's the huge debate.....do you want it to come on sooner or later....to me "sooner" is indeed better, but not as soon as I have my bike set up to do because you have a more "enhanced" engine while I am using a cam that comes on a bit sooner to mask the "lack" of a bigger engine per say.  Also I believe "torque" is more important than horsepower....and it's the "torque" that makes our bikes fun to ride....it's that "thrill" of getting off the line and feeling the pulling of your engine....and after 75 MPH I have experienced what I need for myself personally.....it's what I refer to as "legal" fun....after 75 mph on roads posted as such your fun is at risk of being debated by elements beyond yourself.

Olestoney you are so far down the R&D "trail" and as you have found it's expensive and time consuming.....but that is ok...it's just where you find yourself right now....so to hear me suggest trying something and if you don't like it then try something else isn't something I would assume you are extremely excited about....

Here is what I would keep in mind you have a bike that is aprx 580 lbs, which is fairly light for an HD.....ummmm well especially as compared to the 2009 Ultra's which are coming in at 880 lbs wet. I would still want my cam on my FXR to come on way before 3,200 RPM's to feel it "kick" in because I would already know the bigger engine would make up for my cam coming on sooner where it would over ride it's short comings per say.

I also think you should keep this in mind.....I seriously doubt you will be riding this bike in the RPM's above say 4200 to 4800 before shifting....

Perhaps a bit of History of the FXR will help to solidify what kind of bike you are riding.....here is a thread I recently put together on another website....I felt that it would be good to understand the intent of the FXR model that HD was attempting to create....if you wish click and read....

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=25417.0;all

Personally, I believe you will really enjoy the 3.08 gearing on this particular bike the way you have it set up......and I would concentrate on a cam that comes on with it's sweet spot prior to 3200 rpms....

I have to admit this.......I am having a difficult time grasping the desire to have such a big "motor" in an FXR....but I believe I have stated this from the onset....but that's what is so fun about this entire process, we are all individuals experiencing our "journies" from different "paths". 

Regards,

"Classic"

From: olstoney2 Sent: 8/1/2008 4:35 AM

Classic,

Outstanding job on the history research, congratulations.

Perhaps I'm making the 5015 cam sound worse than it really is. It actually pulls hard from idle all the way through and I really like the cam and performance. I only passed along what the V-Thunder rep told me in regards to the "sweet spot".

The 5015 was recommended by my head porter (He runs it), V-Thunder and others for my combination. The HD SE heads when ported like higher lifts to flow the best. My heads flowed the highest at .585 lift hence the 5015. Revolution the cylinder kit manufacturer actually recommended a T-Man .590. My engine had an EV-27 installed prior to the rebuild, so I'm familiar with the charicteristics.

Two problems with the Andrews, at .495 lift it does not take advantage of the headwork and with the timing/overlap on the Andrews our cranking (static)compression would have been higher. My main consideration was not to gear the bike to be out of the powerband. As your chart suggests and the Dyno operator agrees it comes down to a matter of rpm's and gear selection.

I'm too old to race crotch rockets anymore and just want to drop the highway rpms too be more comfortable and not work the engine as hard at speed. The 3.08 option is the easeist at this point, so we'll try that first. If that turns out to be too high, I can always go 3.15 although it does not seem to accomplish alot, or Todd's six sped theory.

Thanks again or all the time and assistance.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 8/1/2008 4:48 AM

BTW,
I'll always be a gearhead and will have a modified engine. My last Shovel a 73 FXE was an 88" S&S with Branch heads, S&S B carb,Sifton 468S cam and Andrews close ratio trans gears. Those were the days when you built your own engine from parts.

S&S did not have production engines then and when you called S&S, George or Margie usually answered the phone. That FXE could bury the speedo with my wife on the back and some rice burners as well. Still have the same wife (33yrs), but now the 93 Evo.

Wish I had never sold that FXE, although my current bike handles much better as your history suggests. We also had one of the first black 1977 FXS low riders, brand new off the showroom floor at $4200.00. That was the only new Harley we ever owned and ever will.

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 8/1/2008 9:24 AM

Olstoney.....



So what would be the cross over cam for Andrews or Woods in that range of lift as compared to the V~Thunder 5015?  Although I must say I like my V~Thunder "product" the V~Thunder 3010 it's quiet and "strong" for my particular application, so I would assume the V~Thunder 5015 to be reflective of such as well....

I see no reason why you won't like the 3.08 gearing as compared to the 3.37 gearing since what you are after is reducing the amount of RPM's. 

This will all be very interesting to see how it all turns out, now you said you are going to get this together sometime this weekend so perhaps in a week or so you will have a "feel" for it's results...?

Regards,

"Classic"

From: olstoney2 Sent: 8/1/2008 1:26 PM

Classic,
It all depends upon the powdercoater. They managed somehow to run the clearcoat on my new 65T rear pulley and caliper mounting bracket. They say that it can be refinished, the question is how much longer will that take?  We last talked on Wednesday.

Otherwise all the other parts are here, it's just a matter of when they get the parts refinished and if the lift is available when they are. I agree, should be interesting to see how this develops. If it doesn't work as intended at least the plan can be modified or reversed. It's only our shop time now as the parts are paid for.

The new TP 5 speed FXR trans case will be here on Monday. That option will sit until I get some more feedback.

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 8/10/2008 11:16 PM
Olstoney.....

How you doing......here we are just over 2 months since you started this post....thought I would check in and see how you are doing.....Now I know what is meant the "Dog Day's Of Summer....lol here in Colorado we had a historical record setting month for July of something like 21 days or so of 90 degrees or warmer.....which is highly unusual for Colorado...obviously sense it set a record.....

Ok....well so much for Todd8080 and his value added to this thread.....POOF and he is HISTORY and so are his insights.......don't you just love that about this website...a person cancel's their memberships and POOF everything they have written is GONE.....

I sure hope HIPPO doesn't "cancel" his membership or 85% of the value of HTT will be "POOF" and gone.....but that's ok if he does.....I have his knowledge safely stored on my hard drive and a back up....lol.....

SO WHAT'S THE UPDATE:

He will allow me to fit one of his used belts to get the proper tooth count and then order a new one for me once we know.

This information is really important so don't drop off the face of the earth without posting it....lol....if you decide that the 33 T Trans Pulley and the 65 T Rear Wheel Sprocket is your choice then knowing what belt you need to go to will be critical to helping others.... so if you would provide the Drag Specialties part number if applicable, model name of the belt, part number of the belt if HD or whatever, where you find it, and how much that would be good information.....

I have really learned a lot this summer about gearing.....lol and even did my own gear change on my 2002 RKC......

Some of the models date back to 1985 having a final gearing of 3.37.  I have also learned that all FXR's From 89-93 were all offered in 3.37 final gearing....in 1994 the final gearing became 3.15 and with the 1999 FXR2's, 1999 FXR3's, and 2000 FXR4's the final gearing was 2.925.

I trust you are not getting brain "freeze" on which gearing to go to.....after getting away from this thread and going out and riding....which of course is always the true test, settling in on 3.03 gearing for your bike seems to be a very viable solution. I mean think about it your engine will surely compensate nicely with that gearing....you keep the 3.37 gearing in and it's well to shift baby . com.  lol

Olestoney make sure you visit the other website where I mentioned the FXR HISTORY thread and jump over there and participate.....there are a few guys over there that would benefit from your experience of building the "HOT ROD" Engine....and drop a photo in there as well.

Alrighty well it's just the two of us that some how got this thread to nearly 84 posts....without Todd8080 it's like Dead Man Walking.....lol....I wonder why he "dumped" his membership....

Oh well onward.....tomorrow is a canyon ride day....on the FXR2....should be fun.....

Regards,

"Classic"

From: olstoney2 Sent: 8/11/2008 5:33 AM

Hi Classic,

I did read your FXR History post and tried to post a photo, but the file was too large. Not being that computer literate, I do not know how to reduce the file size. Our plans have not changed the 140 Avon is mounted, but the powdercoater still has not redone the rear pulley. That should be done by tomorrow (yeah right)!

In the meantime my shop owner injured his back, so the shop was closed last week and we are now behind on two jobs. Soon as I can get the lift time, we'll swap the rear wheels and pulleys over. If the 136T rear belt does not fit (it should), we'll find out what we need and reinstall the current rear wheel to avoid any downtime.

I conferred with Todd via e-mail and received his input on the six speed option. You are right, the loss of his input here to help others is a shame. Todd did agree that the poor man's route that I am taking should work out, but the gearing will change somewhat throughout the entire range. Your FXR with the different factory primary gearing would not be effected as much as mine.

Although being very cost effective, the Ultima guts into my spare case is not the answer IMO for an FXR owner. The trap door is slightly thicker and has no provision for the 5/16" ear needed for the rear exhaust mount. Baker Drivetrain although much more expensive than the Ultima, has the answer though with their DD6 builders kit. The Baker trap door is the same thickness as stock and can be had with or without the exhaust bracket ear. Baker also supplies a new smaller compensating sprocket, longer primary chain and new tensioner assembly with their kit. This allows one to keep the same gearing as stock in first through fifth, with sixth acting as the OD with the stock 70T rear pulley. This would seem to solve my high speed gearing issue without loosing any engine performance at all.

Depending upon the tooth count on the transmission, we are looking at about 3200 rpm at 85mph with the DD6 conversion. We will be applying for a Baker dealership tomorrow and see how the pricing is after that. Then it is just a matter of saving the cash to pay for the parts. I also like the 5 year 50,000 mile warranty that Baker offers. I did purchase two High Torque primary bearing kits and a hardened trans pulley spacer while I was on the phone with them.

In the meantime we are still waiting for our Dyno operator to return from Sturgis. I'm chomping at the bit to get the final tuning done and see what this old girl has got!

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 8/12/2008 12:53 AM

Good to hear from you olstoney....

Keep me posted....and if you want send me an e~mail with an attachment with a photo of your bike and I will post it over there.....providing you can send it to me....I then can downsize it and either send it back to you or as I said post it myself....

Regards,

"Classic"

From: SUPERDAVE8404 Sent: 8/19/2008 7:41 PM

I just did a change over for an 87 FXRT and went with a 33-65 pulley ratio.This requires a 133 or 134 tooth belt.The 136 tooth belt is too long.

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 8/19/2008 9:37 PM

SUPERDAVE8404.......

Hey thanks for sharing!!!!

Ok so you have an 87 FXRT which you changed the transmission pulley from 32 up to a 33 and then you changed the Rear Wheel Sprocket from a 70 Tooth down to a 65 Tooth.

Ok so your "stock" secondary drive belt was 136 Tooth.   Ok so you felt that the need to reduce two teeth to be that important, [I am learning here so I am not challenging your decision I am merely curious]  so did you go with a HD belt,

So what manufactuerer did you select for your 33 Tooth Transmission Pulley?
and what did you actually use for your "new" rear sprocket?

So SUPERDAVE, you decided to change your gearing because? 

and do you feel you accomplished the goal?

Ok so your primary is running what perhaps a 24 Tooth compensating sprocket and a 37 Tooth Clutch Shell Basket?  Is this correct and if it is....then by modifying what you did above you basically have ended up with 3.037 gearing which is very close to what an FXR2, FXR3, FXR4 is running....[I only picked out those bikes because I am familiar with the gearing in these bikes and because they are also FXRs]

Thanks for  your input/

Regards,

"Classic"

From: olstoney2 Sent: 8/20/2008 6:26 AM

Classic,
Posted the history you requested on the FXR history page, photos to follow shortly. Sorry, But we were ducking TS Fay all day yesterday and still today and the weather is lousy.

I'm also interested in Superdave's further comments with special interest on the belt. My adjustor is currently all the way forward with the 136T belt. We measured the distance from the center of the clutch hub to rear axle and according to BDL's chart with that measurement a 135T belt is called for.

As the 65T pulley is smaller in diameter than the 70T and we wanted the new 140 wheel and tire combo further back in the adjustor, it made sense that the 136T belt would work as each tooth is supposed to be about 1/32" in adjustment. I guess we'll find out once we get to it. If we slip the new combo in and the 136T belt will not work the intention is to reinstall the current wheel vback on to avoid any downtime.

We'll order the correct belt and proceed with everything at once. I'm also still considering the Baker DD6 guts for my spare tranny case if I can come up with the cash.


THIS IS WHAT OLSTONEY2 POSTED ON THE "FXR HISTORY" THREAD LOCATED @ THE OLD HTT:
From: olstoney2 Sent: 8/19/2008 6:10 AM

Classic has asked me to post and share a little of my own personal HD history. I'm forwarding a newer photo of my 1993 FXLR to him after we are through with TS Fay here in Florida. My first Harley was a 1948 Pan Chopper purchased from Adamec's HD in Jacksonville, Florida in 1967.

After being injured in an accident (Drunk Driver), I lost my left leg and my beloved Pan was totaled. Moved back to my home state of N.Y., and rode Sporty's for awhile as the shifter was on the right and all I had to do was move the brake lever to the right. Built a succession of choppers putting the throttle on the left side, clutch handle on the right side and using a jockey shift on the ratchet top.

In 1973, I purchased my first FX, a Brown low mileage AMF Shovel from an individual in Daytona. Trucked the bike home and totally rebuilt it including fabricating mounts to move the shifter over to the right side. I also was 1/2 owner of ARV Custom Cycle located in Rochester, N.Y. In those days, S&S did not build engines, you built your own using S&S parts.

Having always been a motorhead, I bought a set of S&S flywheels, built a high compression 88 inch engine using a set of Branch heads, Sifton 468S cam, S&S B carb and Andrews close ratio gear set in the 4-speed. The next year in 1974 my wife (still have her), bought me an electric start kit from Harley to upgrade the bike to an FXE and to help start that stroker motor. Most of the time I rode two up and wifey and I would average 10K per year.

Kept that bike until 1977 when Harley introduced the first lowrider the FXS. We fell in love with the look, traded in the 73 and came home on one of the first Black FXS sold in our area. At that time the bike cost $4200.00 total and our dealer Harv's HD transferred my shifter parts over (removing both primaries) at no charge. Those were the days when you actually could get good service!

Kept that bike until we moved back to SW Florida in 1982. Ran across a used 1986 FXRP for the right price, sold the Shovel and bought that first Evo FXR. Of course I stripped all that Police stuff off. Did not keep that bike for very long due to my employment commitments. We did notice the difference in handling from the previous FX frames to the newer FXR style as being much improved.

After a hiatus from riding for several years and finally retiring, I looked long and hard for another mid 70's FXE Shovel. After not being able to find anything suitable, I picked up my current ride a 1993 FXLR that was a garage queen. The previous owner from Boca Raton had maintained the bike, but from sitting and not being ridden was starting to show some leaking problems.

It was easy to make the decision to purchase this bike. Even tough it needed some updating, it was in mint condition. It was also an FXLR that I knew would handle well. The previous owner had installed quite a bit of extra chrome and the bike had 10 1/2" Progressive 412's on the rear. I also became involved on a part time basis with Choppers Spirit in N. Ft. Myers doing some mechanical work to help with the parts costs. The shop owner is a true fabricator and craftsman in every sense of the word. He specializes in ground up custom builds and for anyone interested our website is www.choppersspirit.org. Of course I'm the older guy in the gallery photos (LOL).

When Classic posts the photo, you will be able to see the changes I have made. I do still have all of the original parts stored away to be able to convert the bike back to a true FXLR. I wanted to go tubeless, so aquired and refinished two sets of 9 spoke black/highlighted HD mags. The brakes were rebuilt using SS lines, Lyndall pads and Russell rotors. The engine has been upgraded with the addition of a Revolution Performance 85" kit @ 10.5 to 1, with SE heads ported for me by our own wfolarry (Larry's Motorcycle and Machine). The engine also features SE chrome lifter blocks, a V-Thunder EVL-5015 cam and lifters, SE adjustable pushrods, TP roller rockers, S&S reed valve breather, S&S rocker boxes, Super E carb and a Dyna 2000 ingnition. The current exhausts are Kromewerks ARII's with no baffles and will be changed to Samson FX-109's with baffles prior to the Dyno pulls.

The engine is 400 miles into the 500 mile break in process and gets stronger as it breaks in. I had to cancel my Dyno session due to the arrival of TS Fay and will make a new appointment when the storm passes. After the dyno pulls are completed we will be changing the rear gearing to a higher ratio to help the RPM's some at highway speeds. We will also be changing the seat to a flame stitched Badlander style and will be installing a shorter sissy bar and pad. I also have a Progressive suspension lowering kit for the front end, but do not want to mess with that until my new Avon Venom's are ready to go.

I could have purchased any new bike I wanted, but chose to keep a piece of HD history instead. This will be the last Harley I ever own and could not be pried away from me at any cost. I hope you guys have enjoyed the personal history. I have enjoyed being a part of the forum and hope perhaps I have helped some other members as they have helped me along the way. I'll try to get that photo off to Tim ASAP after the storm passes.

Best Regards to all,
Buddy....
 

From: SUPERDAVE8404 Sent: 8/20/2008 6:54 AM

Well guys this was not my bike.The guy wanted to install a Rev-tech 6 speed tranny.He just came back from a trip and complained his left hand was sore from the clutch.He already had the 65 tooth rear pulley and the 133 tooth belt.It was the 1 1/8 width belt.I believe it was a stock HD belt as it had the Harley logo on it.
The primary ratio was a 24-37 and his secondary was 32-70 with a 136 tooth belt.His motor had some performance work done to it so it was able to handle the different gearing.
I went with a BDL 33 tooth tranny sprocket.They are lighter than the Andrews and the stock pulley.This extra weight on the other pulleys helps to wear the main drive gear bearing down.Less rotating mass means more power to push the bike forward.The belt (133) brings the axle close to the front of the adjustment when the belt is adjusted.
The reason I got him to go with the gearing change instead of the 6 speed is that he bought another FXR and is going to sell this one.
He likes the new gearing and the bike still pulls really good in all gears.
Hope this helps you out with the questions.

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 8/20/2008 9:45 AM

SUPERDAVE....

Hey what you shared was quite informative....just a couple of question:

The guy wanted to install a Rev-tech 6 speed tranny.He just came back from a trip and complained his left hand was sore from the clutch.He already had the 65 tooth rear pulley and the 133 tooth belt.It was the 1 1/8 width belt. I believe it was a stock HD belt as it had the Harley logo on it.
The primary ratio was a 24-37 and his secondary was 32-70 with a 136 tooth belt.

Interesting that he had a belt for 1 1/8" the belt width for his 1987 FXRT,  my 99 FXR2 has a belt width of 1.5".  Would that have meant that he must have had a "narrower" wheel sprocket as well, back in 1987 was this common to have the 1 1/8" wide rear wheel sprockets?   I know that this is certainly done on aftermarket stuff.....

I went with a BDL 33 tooth tranny sprocket.They are lighter than the Andrews and the stock pulley. This extra weight on the other pulleys helps to wear the main drive gear bearing down.Less rotating mass means more power to push the bike forward. The belt (133) brings the axle close to the front of the adjustment when the belt is adjusted.
This was excellent input for me SUPERDAVE.....you explained the "benefits" of the BDL product and that is informative to me.....thanks


The reason I got him to go with the gearing change instead of the 6 speed is that he bought another FXR and is going to sell this one.  He likes the new gearing and the bike still pulls really good in all gears.

So at the end of the day.....do you think your customer having done this to the 1987 FXRT liked it well enough, ie: the changes to the secondary gearing...to perhaps consider these changes on his other newly acquired FXR as well, or will he still desire the 6 speed tranny, I realize one can not always predict what us "customers" will do but your insight might be helpful in identifying what he "really" thought of the change.......or did he simply make the change you suggested above because obviously it was less expensive than changing the tranny....of which one might ask the question if one knows they are going to "sell" one's bike why put the expense in of changing the "gears to begin with unless both of these circumstances happened congruently....

The motivation for this question really is to get a feel for what the customer "might" do as he perceives the "wow" factor of what you did, if in fact he perceives it that way as well as listening to what you personally feel in regards to specifically an FXR and the changes which were being made as it relates to the weight of the bike, the engine of course and as perhaps you see the overall benefit of an additional "gear" which would be associated with a "6 speed" tranny. 

Of course....the way the FXR2, FXR3 and FXR4 bikes were set up in 1999 with the 25 Tooth comp sprocket, the 36 Tooth clutch shell basket, the 32 Tooth transmission pulley, the 65 Tooth rear wheel sprocket and as mentioned before with the 1.5" belt which has 133 Teeth, presenting the final gearing of 2.925, I really see the 5th gear at this "gearing" already being the "OVERDRIVE ie: as an example a 6th gear....

This is has been much about the discussion of this particular thread, whether for an FXR "sized" bike the installation of a 6 speed transmission is actually "ever" warranted.....and if so to what end, and if not why not....I believe in the "why not" but am obivously open to the discussion of the "why" as that is what perhaps will help someone else down the road if faced with the decision....

Any reflections would be valuable....

Regards,

"Classic"

From: SUPERDAVE8404 Sent: 8/20/2008 11:39 AM

I am not sure what the other FXR has in it already other than it is suppose to have aprox. 90 hp at the rear wheel.He says that the new gearing is very well suited for the bike.As for the 6 speed I am not sure if he is going to sell it or use it for another bike.

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 8/23/2008 5:43 PM

I found the post that started it all....lol

nearly 6 months ago.....look how far we have all come....

<smiles>

Regards,

"Classic"


Evo 1340 : Gearing Guru's Advice Needed

From: olstoney2  (Original Message) Sent: 1/27/2008 3:07 PM
Guys,
I want to lower the gearing on my FXR. It has a 24T engine sprocket, 37T clutch basket, 33T BDL trans pulley and 70T rear pulley. My understanding is that I can not go to a 25T engine sprocket without changing the clutch basket and primary chain. The clutch basket is new, so I do not wish to replace it.

Is there a primary chain available to go with a 25T to 37T and what would the gearing then be?

What would the gearing be with my current 24, 37, 33 and changing to a 65T rear pulley? I understand that if I use the latter method I'll have to buy a new belt, but will there be any clearance issues with the belt guards and so forth?

From: olstoney2 Sent: 1/28/2008 4:08 AM
Todd,
Thanks for the reply and awesome chart. Why to you recommend removing the lower belt guard and do you know off hand what belt I'll need to buy. I think my current one is 137T. My engine is due for some more performance upgrades including an 85" kit and ported heads after Daytona. I think the higher gearing will help with the extra power. Thanks again!!

From: olstoney2 Sent: 1/31/2008 5:36 PM
I'm still looking for an answer or explanation on the removal of the lower belt guard and newer belt tooth count. Otherwise I'm O.K. with trying the 65T rear pulley swap. Thanks!!

From: bikerider58 Sent: 1/31/2008 8:19 PM

I don't know about the belt guard issue, but may be able to answer the belt tooth count.  Depending on the size of the change, you may need a new belt.  I changed my 30 trans pulley to a 34 and the belt was too short.  The belt fit, but the bolt on the axle adjusters were too short.  Since the belt was new and I had a welder, I welded longer bolts to the adjusters.  So, I guess may wheel spacing is a little short, but it has been working fine for several years.  When it is time for a new belt or rear pulley, I'll fix it.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 2/2/2008 3:27 AM

Todd,
Thanks for the explanantion and makes some sense. Should I choose to run a lower(as I have a new chrome one on order), do you forsee any clearance problems with it and the new setup? I've got to make this change next time it becomes convienient. Almost 3000rpm @60mph is just too high for my liking.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 2/13/2008 6:20 PM

Todd8080,
Thanks for the assistance in the past. Can you help with the correct 65T pulley number that will fit my 93FXLR? I have a spare 70T, but after ramming with a large pack this past weekend, I definately need to change the gearing.

From: evorider0 Sent: 2/14/2008 1:55 AM

Just to let you know.i tried to put the 25 on front, wont fits, back to 24.
in my fxr.
maybe with 36 will fit.
the chain too small.
evo

From: olstoney2 Sent: 2/14/2008 12:11 PM

I'm looking for a 65T pulley now. Does anyone know what HD part number will be compatible as they are only listed for softies? My current center hub measures slightly less that 2" and the backspacing from the rear edge of the pulley to the mounting flange is 5/8". There are also raised bosses to accomodate the pulley bolt washers. I'm running a factory HD 9 spoke rear mag wheel with 3/4" Timken bearings. Any help would be appreciated as I'd like to get this changeover dome before bike week.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 2/28/2008 3:49 AM

O.K. Guys,
Located a NIB 65T HD 1 1/2" pulley for $50.00 shipped. Do not have time to do the swap before leaving for Daytona. I've checked the backspacing and bolt pattern and tried the pulley on a spare rear FXR Mag wheel I have. It will definately work, so the question now becomes stay with the 33T trans pulley or drop it back to a 32T?

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 8/24/2008 4:04 PM

I ran accross this thread the other day that I thought was interesting dealt with gearing as well, even though it goes back awhile....I think it would be a good "link" to attach to this thread:

Regards,

"Classic"

Evo 1340 : Question for riders with 65 tooth rear pulley

From: Gryphon  (Original Message) Sent: 11/6/2007 6:05 PM

I recently installed a 32/70 pulley combination. The result when comparing speed and RPM is approx a 3.25 final drive ratio. With my chain drive I had a 3.10 final drive ratio which I liked much better. I know there are taller tranny pulleys available but I wanted to know how any of you guys with the 65 tooth rear pulley liked 'em. Seems like it would be geared a little too high. Harley calls it a 2.92 ratio, on my bike it would be closer to .301 Please keep in mind that these ratio's are computed by comparing RPM and speed. Are you guys happy with the 65t or have a lot of guys changed them out for something else. I already know I'll have to change belts, that's not a problem. The setup I have now is used except for the tranny pulley so I had figured on replacing them before Spring anyway.

From: hd99fxst Sent: 11/6/2007 7:37 PM

I ride a '99 FXST.
Because of the rigid mount motors, Harley gave them the "highway" 2.93 gear. It's a 25 tooth comp, 36 tooth clutch basket, 32T trans pulley, and 65 tooth rear pulley.

I don't mind the vibes, and want to get some of the acceleration back for my winter project. I was considering the 30T trans sprocket (3.12 overall), but then realized I'd have to pull the primary gears to get to the trans sprocket; and futz with the belt. So I'm going to leave the trans sprocket alone, and swap to the (very common) 24 tooth comp / 37 tooth clutch basket. This will give me almost the exact same ratio (3.13 overall); but less to disassemble, and I don't have to change primary chain or rear belt.

Just one more option to consider.

Cheers,
mark.
'99 FXST

From: hd99fxst Sent: 11/6/2007 7:47 PM

Reading your post again, it sounds like you're wanting to go the other way?

I'd start by verifying your comp sprocket and clutch basket tooth counts. Pull the primary cover if necessary. This will let you confirm your ACTUAL ratio (not estimate based on rpm and speed). Primary gearing may still be easier for you than swapping the rear pulley and belt.

Cheers,
mark.

From: Gryphon Sent: 11/6/2007 8:17 PM

Mark,
   Thanks for your reply. I built my bike myself from parts so I already have a pretty good idea whats in it. I was only using the rpm/speed method because rear wheel diameter needs to be taken into account. I am assuming that you are not entirely happy with such tall gearing which is understandable. The 3.10 gearing i had with my chain was a pretty good middle of the road ratio for me. I was just kind of wondering how others felt about the 65 tooth.I could change the tranny pulley to dial it in a little better but it's a PITA so if I tear it down again that far it will only be to go back to a chain.

From: oldgoat Sent: 11/6/2007 11:49 PM

Gryphon
I had 32/70 on my 91 FXRT and the rear axel was near the front of the adjustment range.  Tried a 65 rear pulley and had to adjust the rear axel quite a ways back but, I was not at the end of the adjustment range.  The change dropped the RPM at 70MPH from 3400 to around 3000.   Bike might be a little less "snappy" (is that a word) around town or at 70.  Well worth the trade off IMHO.

Oldgoat

From: onegoodwrench Sent: 11/7/2007 6:42 AM

On my '95 FLHT I went down from a 70 to a 65 on the rear pulley. Depending on power available or vehicle type what I found was that it was a little doggy out of the hole 2 up but at 70 and above I usually found my self in 4th rather than fifth, so I still had a gear to go. That 5 speed "acted" like a 6. 1GW

From: JAMESP1232 Sent: 11/7/2007 6:53 AM

Gryphon, I still have the stock gearing on my 98 softail...65 tooth rear sprocket. I like the gearing fine just like it is...I even keep looking for the 6th gear that I know I dont have. The bike seems to have plenty of torque down low and thru thru the gears.I never put any miles on it before the pipes, breather and cam were changed so I might not have liked the gearing as much in stock trim.

From: jackrocks57 Sent: 11/7/2007 8:55 AM

Ditto what JAMESP1232 stated above, If you have good grunt down low, the 65 is the way to go!
Billy


From: IRNBTT62 Sent: 11/7/2007 1:51 PM

The poor man's 6 speed. Ran a 34/65 on my 87 Heritage.

As said above, I lost a bit down low, but beefing the engine a bit (heads/cam/carb/exhaust) compensated. Once rolling, it was a wonderful combo. The lower ratio let me take better advantage of the gearing around town and on the highway it ran 2700RPM at 70MPH. This right in the middle of the torque band so roll on's were fun.

The stock belt was adjusted all the way back which caused more frequent bottoming out, so when it broke I used a 130T which brought it back to stock adjustment.

Never considered messing with the primary because I had the old style main shaft. A 25/36 ratio primary with a 34/65 final would have been interesting.  I have an 02 Ultra now and if I ever have a reson to change the belt or rear sprocket it will be a 65T
Deet

From: Gryphon Sent: 11/7/2007 2:26 PM

Well, I guess the best way to tell if I'd like the 65t pulley is to try one out. I almost never run two up so that's not a problem. My bike has a 97" S&S motor with a VT-3030 cam, S&S super E,  and a Supertrapp 2 into 1. I have a 132 tooth belt right now but I'm pretty sure I have enough adjustment left to make it work. Very worst case scenario would be the belt a little too loose. I know that's not good but it would only be for a short time to try the gear ratio out. That's one thing I already miss about chains, it is so easy to adjust the drive ratio to right where you want it.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 11/7/2007 2:59 PM

Just for the sake of conversation, what about a 93 FXLR with stock primary gearing a 33T trans pulley and replacing to 70T with the 65? I'm getting ready to replace the rear wheel and tire, so now would be the time. I have to get a rear pulley anyways and what else would need to be changed? The belt adjustment is almost all the way forward. 

From: Xanadu800 Sent: 11/7/2007 8:49 PM

I have the 93 fatboy with the 2.94 final drive ratio using a 61 tooth rear pulley. I love the way it rides, and especially like the 3000 rpm cruise at 80mph! the engine just hums along! From a light its slower than other bikes, but once I hit second gear it really blasts forward. I have not tried bikes with other pulleys so cant tell you how they compare, but I really like the 61 is is great for highway cruising...

From: Mel in MD Sent: 11/12/2007 6:50 PM

I installed the International 65T pully and belt on my 88 FXRS-Sp.  The motor has had mild upgrades-never been opened.  There's plenty of off the line grunt, it pulls strong and long, and the highway lags are just right.  One of the best mods I've done.

From: 748*2Risk Sent: 11/12/2007 7:20 PM

I did the poor mans 6 speed too.  34/65 and it's so sweet on the highway, my hard mount 88"  S&S motor feels like a rubber mount twin cam.  It's not bad around town unless you want to race from light to light.  The trade off with lower RPMs on the highway outways a snappy bar hopper ride to me.  I got away with a 132 belt but later switched to a 130 (Gates) just because I had the bike apart.  On a side note, my bike is a Softail that has been lowered in the rear, with the 70 pulley the belt would rub on the lower part of the frame support over bad bumps, now with the 65 it's just a little higher and never rubs.

From: fatboyharris Sent: 11/18/2007 3:12 AM

I have a '90 Grey Ghost Fatboy US specification with 32/70 combination compared with the International spec which was 32/61 at that time. I found the 32/70 revved the nuts off the bike for  UK roads at higher speeds and was very uncomfortable for longer journeys above 70mph. I didn't want to lose all of the acceleration, so I opted for a half way house of 32/65. The bike still feels like it would benefit from another gear at speeds above 80mph, but the bike is much smoother and more confortable at lower speeds. The benefit compared with other UK spec bikes is that mine has a better roll on/roll off of the throotle than my friends bike with the 32/61 arrangement.

I ride two up most of the time and the 32/65 combination does suit my everyday style of riding, with the occassional 'found wanting another gear' on high speed motorway  journeys.
regards
John

From: olstoney2 Sent: 8/29/2008 4:24 AM

Classic,
I have decided to hold off for awhile and go for the Baker DD6. Although more expensive, the kit is complete, will fit properly and will solve the problem of loosing some ratio throughout the gearing.

This way the trap door and rear exhaust brackets will be the same as stock no fabrication needed. Baker also sends a new compensator sprocket, longer primary chain and new chain adjustorwith their kits. This changes the primary gearing and allows 1st through 5th to remain as they are now and for 6th to become the overdrive at .86.

This way I lose no performance, but gain what I'm looking for in the RPM drop at 85mph still using a 70T rear and my stock 136T belt. I also like the 5 year 50,000 mile warranty. Trying to decide now what I'll sell from my hoard of FXR parts to be able to pay for this. Not sure yet if it will just be the Builders Kit or the whole damn transmission. I looked at other choices, but they are slim to none for an FXR. Baker has a complete line including a choice of two 1st gear ratios and their reputation is bulletproof.

Later, Buddy
 

From: baldoldfxr Sent: 9/9/2008 4:29 PM

Hello,dont know if youre still following this thread, thought you might like to know fxr's were available in europe with 61 tooth rear pulleys as stock.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 9/16/2008 6:16 AM

I wish to express my thanks to all who participated in this discussion. A special thanks go out to "Classic" for his time spent helping with the math. After my friend's shop obtained his Baker dealership and we have a break from dodging Hurricanes, I pulled the plug yesterday and ordered a complete DD6 for my FXR.

It accomplishes everything that I am looking for, no loss in ratios or performance from 1st through 5th and a 500 or better rpm drop in 6th. That means about 3300rpm at 85mph instead of 3800, much more comfortable and easier on the engine. As we all know performance does not come without a price tag. There are cheaper and easier ways to accomplish this as the discussion reveals. The trade off with the cheaper methods are that the gear ratios change throughout the spectrum loosing some performance.

Soon as the transmission arrives it will be installed along with the Avon Venom 140 rear tire. After a short break in and testing period, we'll be off for the Dyno pulls. I'll post the results when completed.

Thanks again to all involved.

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 9/16/2008 8:38 AM

I wish to express my thanks to all who participated in this discussion. A special thanks go out to "Classic" for his time spent helping with the math. After my friend's shop obtained his Baker dealership and we have a break from dodging Hurricanes, I pulled the plug yesterday and ordered a complete DD6 for my FXR.

Olstoney2....

You are welcome......this has been a most interesting "thread" for me as as well.

I am glad you have moved beyond the storm and into a safer time.....

So here is my question, when you do post your results, I am interested in knowing how much a Baker 6 speed normally cost retail, and because of your relationship with your friend how much you saved....I am assuming that the Baker 6 speed has a retail price which is X amount $_________ whatever that might be.  I would also assume that a company like Drag Specialties carries the Baker 6 Speed and thus with a Drag Specialties part number one could go to their 20% Discount HD dealer and acquire the 6 speed for X amount minus 20% = Y amount $_________.   So then the question is what did you purchase this for because of your friendship which would be Z amount $__________.  This might help others in understanding what their options are when reading about the solution you chose vs the solution that is available to other's not having a "friend" who is available to them and thus when it comes to dollars and cents they can make decisions going forward......My point of course is you may have an excellent solution for your bike but at what cost....sometimes the "cost" simply doesn't warrant the "solution" for the typical owner....

Regards,

"Classic"

From: olstoney2 Sent: 10/2/2008 3:09 AM

Classic and All,
We installed the DD6 yesterday and checked the engine to trans alignment. Took about three hours, so we have about six in her counting the teardown. We will install the new Avon 140, button up the primary side and reinstall the exhausts today. Plans are to let her sit overnight, add fluids, adjust the new clutch and test ride on Friday morning, I'll keep you posted.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 10/4/2008 2:26 PM

Going to the DD6 was a good choice although a bit expensive. The installation was completed and the bike was test ridden on Friday. Brought the bike home from the shop today to clean her up some for bike night here tonight although it is now raining.

Although there are cheaper alternatives as I have stated before, the Baker was an excellent choice. The transmission is quiet, shifts smoothly and there is no performance loss through 1st through 5th gear as some of the cheaper alternatives would have caused. The trap door on the Baker is also the same thickness as stock and some of the cheaper alternatives are thicker. This means that the rear exhaust bracket bolted right up without any modifications.

With the taller 140 Avon tire, the 25T engine sprocket and longer primary chain that Baker supplies, 37T clutch basket, 23T trans pulley and 70T rear pulley the engine rpm's @ 85 mph is now about 3200. This is very comfortable, I'm not winding the hell out of the engine anymore @3800 rpm's and there is no loss of performance at all.

I'll do an update after a couple of hundred miles and the Dyno pulls have been completed.

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 10/6/2008 11:12 AM

Olstoney2:

Wow what a process.....and finally we have "lift off" <smiles>....from what I am reading you are glad you did the change.....and also from what I am reading your first 5 gears remained the same with the 6th gear being the one modified....or did all 6 gears get slightly adjusted from where you were originally?

I guess what I am asking is whether the first 5 gears basically have 3.37:1 final gearing with the 6th gear bringing it back down to something that you like for highway running when you are traveling with your "boys" down the highway at 85-90 mph thus what is the 6th gear final ratio _______?  <~~~If I am saying that right that is?

Just linking these two threads together in case anyone is curious...:

HERE IS THE THREAD:

Evo 1340 : FXR Transmission Change

From: olstoney2  (Original Message) Sent: 9/22/2008 4:59 AM

Hi Guys,

My Baker DD6 complete transmission arrived on Friday. Hopefully we'll be swapping out the transmission starting tomorrow. I have all new parts for the installation including a new pivot shaft. I have the 1994-94 HD service and parts manuals as well.

Having never swapped a complete FXR trans before, can anyone help with some do's, do nots and any other advice? After looking this over in the service manual I am kind of concerned as to how the complete trans actually comes out and goes back in. Other than that it should be straightforward from there. Any assistance would be appreciated.

From: Traveler_733 Sent: 9/23/2008 9:03 PM

Hi stoney. I assume you will have it on a lift of some sort. Rear wheel removed. Block the trans. so as to make the pivot shaft removal a bit easier. New belt? Are you going with the Baker Sealed one piece bearing in the inner primary? Does it have a new clutch cable with the trans?  Clutch ok? Primary chain ok?  With the manual and basic mechanical skills & tools, you should be ok. Good luck! Tell us how you like it.  If you have trouble, that's why we are on this board. Bet all questions can be addressed for you.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 9/24/2008 3:56 AM

Traveler,
Yes, we are installing the Baker Hi-Torque bearing and seal. I had them omit the primary bearing race when building the trans. I had to take the innner off anyways as the race is walking on the mainshaft.

All new primary drive parts. Clutch shell and hub, an Energy One clutch, Baker primary chain and compensating sprocket (supplied with the trans) new compensator extension shaft, sliding cam, spring pack and bolts.

My main concern that HD does not address in the manual is removal of the entire trans as one unit. I'm trying to find out exactly what else needs to be removed other than the primary side and swingarm and which way the trans actually comes out

From: Traveler_733 Sent: 9/24/2008 8:29 PM

I'm not familiar with the FXR frame. In FLT frames, there are the pivot shaft, and the bolts attaching it to the rear of the engine. Starter motor removed. Clutch cable removed. Should slide right out the bottom, to the rear.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 9/25/2008 2:49 AM

We are fixing to find out as disassembly starts about 9am this morning. I'll post the results when we are finished.

From: olstoney2 Sent: 9/27/2008 4:33 AM

As an update, we removed the entire primary side, swingarm and transmission in less than three hours. That's when we discovered that the swingarm outer rubbers and nylon washers were shot. We also discovered a ding in the new Baker clutch cover and the top cover had a partially stripped neutral switch thread when unpacking the trans.

Baker shippped new parts immediately and we had to order the swingarm parts via two day air from V-Twin. Should have everything we neeed to go back together on Tuesday.

From: seattledyna Sent: 9/29/2008 5:03 PM

did you have to remove the oil tank for better access?

From: olstoney2 Sent: 9/29/2008 5:57 PM

No we did not have to remove the oil tank. It is possible that we may have to when the new parts arrive on Wednesday. Looks like it will take three pairs of hands to install the transmission. One guy to set it in place, a second to keep the oil lines, wiring clear and start the pivot shaft and front mounting bolts. The third set of hands will be needed to set the swingarm back into position.

Things always come apart faster than when reinstalling, after the tranny and swingarm are back in place it's all easy.

We replaced the swingarm bushings and installed the Baker DD6 in about three hours yesterday. Checked the engine to trans alignment and all is good there. We need to install the new Avon 140 rear tire and button the primary side up today. If there are no more unforseen problems, we'll add the fluids, clutch adjustment and ride her on Friday morning.

As promised, the replacement parts arrived, the installation was completed and the bike was test ridden yesterday afternoon. All said and done, this was an excellent choice although somewhat expensive and time consuming.

Extra time was spent waiting on replacement parts and having to rebuild the swingarm. The actual removal and installation of the transmission itself was straight forward and took about a day. The transmission is quiet, shifts smoothly and there is no performance loss in 1st through 5th gears like some of the cheaper alternatives would have caused.

The Baker trap door is the same thickness as stock and not thicker like some of the cheaper alternatives. This means that the stock rear exhaust bracket bolts right up without any modifications. with the 25T engine sprocket, longer primary chain that Baker supplies, 37T clutch basket, 32T Trans pullet, 70T rear pulley and taller 140 Avon tire, the engine now turns 3200rpm's @ 85mph instead of 3800rpm's. This is much more comfortable and easier on the engine.

As the entire driveline is new, after a couple of hundred miles the fluids will be changed and then it's off tfor the Dyno pulls. I'll issue a final report after those results are in.

From: HyperDetroit Sent: 10/5/2008 7:33 PM

Olstoney2:

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the whole enchilada cost you, replacement parts, trans and all? I am considering doing the same with my 89 FXRS and would like to budget it out somewhat.

Thanks
Hyper

From: olstoney2 Sent: 10/6/2008 4:58 AM

Hyper,
It would not be fair for me to price this publicly. My friend is a Baker dealer and I work with him part time, so he threw me a great deal for a cash sale. The complete trans retails for about $3500.00 complete with the compensator sprocket, primary chain and transmission sprocket or pulley of your choice. The replacement parts were $257.00 shipped, but they should be credited under the 5 year/50,000 mile warranty as they were damaged when shipped.

The parts to rebuild the swingarm were about $150.00 and another $25.00 for a primary and inspection cover gaskets and a quart of Mobil 1 75-140 gear oil. The labor was free as we did the work ourselves between customer jobs.

From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 10/6/2008 11:12 AM

Olstoney2:

Wow what a process.....and finally we have "lift off" <smiles>....from what I am reading you are glad you did the change.....and also from what I am reading your first 5 gears remained the same with the 6th gear being the one modified....or did all 6 gears get slightly adjusted from where you were originally?

I guess what I am asking is whether the first 5 gears basically have 3.37:1 final gearing with the 6th gear bringing it back down to something that you like for highway running when you are traveling with your "boys" down the highway at 85-90 mph thus what is the 6th gear final ratio _______?  <~~~If I am saying that right that is?
 
From: ClassicRider2002 Sent: 10/6/2008 12:12 PM

The Baker trap door is the same thickness as stock and not thicker like some of the cheaper alternatives. This means that the stock rear exhaust bracket bolts right up without any modifications. with the 25T engine sprocket, longer primary chain that Baker supplies, 37T clutch basket, 32T Trans pullet, 70T rear pulley and taller 140 Avon tire, the engine now turns 3200rpm's @ 85mph instead of 3800rpm's. This is much more comfortable and easier on the engine.

Olstoney2

Alright just looking for clarification, you had as stock on your 1993 FXLR the following:
Primary Drive  Double-Row Chain  Final Gearing 3.37   with the following:
24T Compensating Sprocket
37T Clutch Shell Basket
32T Transmission Pulley
70T Rear Wheel Sprocket

But if I am reading correctly Baker provided with their DD6 transmission "kit" a 25T compensating sprocket and a longer primary chain which makes sense since you are staying with the "stock" 37T clutch shell basket...but because the transmission pulley remains stock at the 32T, and the rear wheel sprocket remains stock at 70T then what are your gear ratios for the first 5 gears:

ok it appears if one uses the following:

25T Compensating Sprocket
37T Clutch Shell Basket
32T Transmission Pulley
70T Rear Wheel Sprocket
~with a bit longer primary chain.....

then the gearing for the first 5 gears would be:

1st gear:  10.39238
2nd gear:  7.154875
3rd gear:   5.082875
4th gear:   3.982125
5th gear:   3.2375

Which means to me that you ended up changing your first 5 gears from 3.37 final gearing down to 3.2375 final gearing for the first 5 gears.....and that your "6th" gear must be coming in around 2.79 - 2.82 or so to accomodate the 85 mph in 6th gear.

THUS:
What you had available to you by ONLY changing the rear wheel sprocket from 70T to 65T and changing the 32T transmission sprocket to a 33T transmission sprocket also requiring a larger rear wheel belt would have "netted" you a resulting 3.037 final gearing ratio all at an appoximate value of $350.00 which would have left you at 3400 rpms at 85 MPH in 5th gear.  However, with the Baker set up, if I am calculating this all correctly you netted a "Lower" RPM of 200 when traveling at 85 mph in 6th gear vs the 5th gear set up of 3400 rpms at 85 mph, but spent apprx. $3,500 "retail" to acquire such?  You did however keep your first 5 gears closer to the original final ratio which was 3.37 gearing OEM and with the Baker it has only been lowered to 3.2375 final gearing for the first 5 gears if indeed I am understanding this all correctly.....which "nets" you more "pull" in the first 5 gears as well, I believe vs if you had changed your OEM stock set up to get a lower RPM for 5th gear.

I think I am reading this correctly....

Am I making sense and is my "logic' correct?

If so, then what you accomplished with the expenditure of the 6 gear Baker Transmission is keeping your bike closer to the "power" "street seat of the pants feel" for the first 5 gears and really accomodated dropping your RPM's for the 6th gear which you feel was important at the 85-95 mph speed.....most likely being able to run your bike at 95 mph at 3850 or less in RPMS.....while being able to ride comfortably at 85 MPH @ 3200 RPMs. 

WOW like I said what a journey.....now all we need is a 200 mile check up and a 1,000 mile check up and a 5,000 mile check up.....and a report of say a 5-6 day trip of 400-500 mile days to tell us all what it feels like....

WOW what a journey and one I have learned a lot from this summer for sure!

END OF THREAD

Regards,

"Classic"

From: olstoney2 Sent: 10/6/2008 2:59 PM

Classic,
Your logic seems correct in a manner of speaking, however the sixth gear is at .086. With the change in the compensator and longer chain, the gearing changes in the primary to keep 1st through 5th the same as stock with sixth acting as your overdrive. The larger Avon rear tire also factors into the equation which is why we went back to a 32T trans pulley instead of the 33T that was installed. Baker has two low gear ratios to choose from. I chose to stay with the stock gear ratios.

We were running a 24T engine/37T clutch,33T and 70 rear with a smaller rear tire. 3800+ rpms or so @ 85mph. Baker did the math as you did and suggested going to the 32T trans pulley with the larger rear tire. This would put us right about at 3200 rpm @ 85mph,  which is where I wanted to be.

There is definately no loss of performance through the gears and the engine is not doggy as I suspected it might be by going the other way. The seat of the pants pull is still there, but the rpm drop in sixth is great! I did send you a private e-mail earlier when you asked about the pricing and received no response. Figured you might be on vacation or something.

Due to my connection at the shop, I can't get specific on the pricing. Let's just say that the discount between suggested retail and a percentage over dealer was enough to make this a worthwhile project for me. I also purchased a complete transmission assembled at Baker that costs a bit more. You can buy the Builders Kit that includes all the parts needed to install DD6 guts into your existing case for less money. I wanted to keep my five speed as a backup as it is numbered to my bike.

We did the work ourselves, so the labor was free. Now it's a matter of putting a few miles on the trans, readjusting everything, changing the fluids again and off to the Dyno.

From: Flatlander713 Sent: 10/11/2008 11:20 AM

Thanks to all that posted on this thread. Very valuable info here!