HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 24, 2016, 03:40:26 PM
When I installed my Thundermax about 7 years ago, I was getting 280-300km (around 180 miles) out of a tank of gas. 
...
but now I'm lucky if I get 180km (110 miles) out of a tank, which is less than 25mpg like, less than HALF of what everybody else reports getting!  Something's not right here! BUT it runs great, spark plugs look fine, and no fuel leaks.  You are supposed to be able to adjust this thing for good fuel economy AND power.  Last year, I adjusted the AFR a few degrees lower to to try and nip this in the bud, but all I did was lose a bit of power. As you can see from the maps I've attached below, my offsets say I need more gas. This issue actually started before I added cams and has sort of been a gradual loss of fuel economy over time. Can anybody tell me what gives? 

@1280-1792RPM

Tip on current maps and your change:

If you hook up your computer to the bike and put TMax into monitor mode you will see that the CLOSED TB Blade registers @ TPS 14.076 deg's [that is the box just left of the 14.8 scale line at the bottom of the chart]
You should not change any setting at closed throttle AND TO THE LEFT OF THAT.  TMax uses that area on each RPM page to do internal things... (of course if instructed by tech support than do it)

What is the quality of your gas Octane rating? is it oxygenated?, etc

What RPM is cruise? [yes your gearing change will effect gas mileage] and have you done the marking of the throttle grip to the map TPS scale? [sorry I cannot find the write up, but it's where you add tape to the grip, then when in monitor mode using a pointer on the H-Bar mark the tape to match the TPS map positions as you rotate the grip.  Later that lets you see the TPS position when riding where you cruise]

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 07:29:33 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 25, 2016, 05:55:08 PM
Thanks for giving me all the factors to look at.  I will look these and other maps over while keeping these factors in mind.

As I said you need to find a match within the RedShift cams and gave some tips.  here is the next things to consider:

http://www.fuelmotousa.com/p-28612-performance-cams.html#camspecs
This is a write up on your cam.  Sounds nice, but we know that no wood cam is gentle  by nature they have a get up and go.

http://www.zippersperformance.com/index.php/downloads/dl/file/id/29/product/0/catalog_red_shift_cams.pdf
here are the write ups for the RedShift cams, my experience is some are more get up and go than other...

Next when reading the map details and they discuss compression remember to convert the maps static compression to dynamic, and do the same for your cam.  That will adjust for differences in Intake Closer between cams 
[the map I run is for a 47* closure @10.5:1 plus, but my cam closes at 42* with 10.2:1,      dynamic is a wash...]

Can you elaborate a bit on this? Is there and actual "dynamic" and "static" compression setting in the SMLIV software? If so, do I set it before or after running IAC Auto following the new base map upload? I don't see a setting for this, tho...

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 26, 2016, 08:08:39 AM

Yes, I save all my past maps and keep the most current ones (from the past year or so) on the desktop of my slow and clunky Windows machine. I also run Auto-Map after every time I clear the off-sets and let it auto-tune for a week or so.  I want to keep this current map, if for nothing else, than the ignition timing settings. May need to copy those, if this thing starts popping or pinging again after running the new map. 

Think I will try map 894, as you suggested and go from there...

If you can hold off a little I would... I'm still trying to get more info from you before finalizing a map.  I'm also try to understand your TW-555 cam, but think it matches better with RS575... or a maybe a RS577 map

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 26, 2016, 08:37:52 AM

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 07:29:33 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 25, 2016, 05:55:08 PM
Thanks for giving me all the factors to look at.  I will look these and other maps over while keeping these factors in mind.

As I said you need to find a match within the RedShift cams and gave some tips.  here is the next things to consider:

http://www.fuelmotousa.com/p-28612-performance-cams.html#camspecs
This is a write up on your cam.  Sounds nice, but we know that no wood cam is gentle  by nature they have a get up and go.

http://www.zippersperformance.com/index.php/downloads/dl/file/id/29/product/0/catalog_red_shift_cams.pdf
here are the write ups for the RedShift cams, my experience is some are more get up and go than other...

Next when reading the map details and they discuss compression remember to convert the maps static compression to dynamic, and do the same for your cam.  That will adjust for differences in Intake Closer between cams 
[the map I run is for a 47* closure @10.5:1 plus, but my cam closes at 42* with 10.2:1,      dynamic is a wash...]

Can you elaborate a bit on this? Is there and actual "dynamic" and "static" compression setting in the SMLIV software? If so, do I set it before or after running IAC Auto following the new base map upload? I don't see a setting for this, tho...

You can google info on static compression verses dynamic

Then here is a page with a calculator.  pick the 96" motor then you can change anything [e.g. like head c's] to get the static compress equal to what you need, then enter the cam and it will provide the dynamic. [e.g. map shows 10.5:1, and RSxxx; then enter you motor info and your cam]
http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 08:32:53 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 24, 2016, 03:40:26 PM
When I installed my Thundermax about 7 years ago, I was getting 280-300km (around 180 miles) out of a tank of gas. 
...
but now I'm lucky if I get 180km (110 miles) out of a tank, which is less than 25mpg like, less than HALF of what everybody else reports getting!  Something's not right here! BUT it runs great, spark plugs look fine, and no fuel leaks.  You are supposed to be able to adjust this thing for good fuel economy AND power.  Last year, I adjusted the AFR a few degrees lower to to try and nip this in the bud, but all I did was lose a bit of power. As you can see from the maps I've attached below, my offsets say I need more gas. This issue actually started before I added cams and has sort of been a gradual loss of fuel economy over time. Can anybody tell me what gives? 

@1280-1792RPM

Tip on current maps and your change:

If you hook up your computer to the bike and put TMax into monitor mode you will see that the CLOSED TB Blade registers @ TPS 14.076 deg's [that is the box just left of the 14.8 scale line at the bottom of the chart]
You should not change any setting at closed throttle AND TO THE LEFT OF THAT.  TMax uses that area on each RPM page to do internal things... (of course if instructed by tech support than do it)

Got it.

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 08:32:53 AM
What is the quality of your gas Octane rating? is it oxygenated?, etc

I don't know. They do not post it on the pumps, like in America. I just know that premium or high octane is the yellow one. I could go and ask where I usually fill up, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they reply that it's "proprietary information" and they can't give it out. Y'know I actually had somebody tell me that when I asked for the calories contained in one scoop of their ice cream? LOL. In any case, I do a preliminary search, here, before I hit the sack...

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 08:32:53 AM
What RPM is cruise? [yes your gearing change will effect gas mileage] and have you done the marking of the throttle grip to the map TPS scale? [sorry I cannot find the write up, but it's where you add tape to the grip, then when in monitor mode using a pointer on the H-Bar mark the tape to match the TPS map positions as you rotate the grip.  Later that lets you see the TPS position when riding where you cruise]

Don't know that either. I don't have a tach, and I never did figure out a practical and safe way to do the "monitor-while-marking-the-TP-on-duct-tape" thing. I actually have to have my computer hooked up and monitoring while riding, correct? What do I use for a seat, since I'll have connector sticking out of the computer right where the seat should go? Really...am I missing something obvious and being a complete ignoramus, here; or do I actually have to figure out a way to do this safely and sensibly? Not trying to be a smartass or difficult.  I really appreciate the help and info you're giving me, but I don't think T-Max really thought this process thru, logically, if they really expect somebody to do this.  This is where having the PV would be an advantage...

A quick Google search tells me that premium gas in Japan is generally 96 RON across the board, which is approximately equivalent to 92 AKI in the US.  I could not find anything on whether it is oxygenated or not.

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 24, 2016, 03:40:26 PM
@2048-3840RPM

Okay you got the 14.8 stuff

Now when you changed gearing you changed where cruise RPM is and where TPS is...

Look at the map above find 14.8, see how the curve going right changes [increases fuel / AFR towards 13.0 of the downward slope]
You might need the line going right longer before the the slope moves downward because of the gearing change.

My guess you did the gearing before the cams?

Quote
I adjusted the AFR a few degrees lower to to try and nip this in the bud, but all I did was lose a bit of power. As you can see from the maps I've attached below, my offsets say I need more gas. This issue actually started before I added cams and has sort of been a gradual loss of fuel economy over time.

I think both affected the mileage, plus the gunk on the valves.

FWIW don't be so hard on yourself, if you want help then HTT members will help.


we'll continue tomorrow

Good thread. The rpm maps from what I see are not MPG friendly and agree on the cruise rpm shift as part of the reason for change.
Ron

Quote from: rbabos on July 26, 2016, 09:49:57 AM
Good thread. The rpm maps from what I see are not MPG friendly and agree on the cruise rpm shift as part of the reason for change.
Ron

Thanks... The map page is @ 3840 RPM so it's not a good example.  I haven't done much with the old SMLIV version of TMax, but on the TMAXII version the ones I've worked are all like 13.8 and below for the off idle - light throttle - cruise range.  I'm guessing it like insurance the dealer/bike owner does not run lean.

My personal bike is like 13.6 in those ranges 10.2:1, 590 lift cams 55mm TB with oxygenated gas and I can get 41+ on long road trips [maybe it's those 20* pistons  ].  In town it's too much fun not to twist the grip and to turn on the shift light.

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 09:41:55 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 24, 2016, 03:40:26 PM
@2048-3840RPM

Okay you got the 14.8 stuff

Now when you changed gearing you changed where cruise RPM is and where TPS is...

Look at the map above find 14.8, see how the curve going right changes [increases fuel / AFR towards 13.0 of the downward slope]
You might need the line going right longer before the the slope moves downward because of the gearing change.

My guess you did the gearing before the cams?

Quote
I adjusted the AFR a few degrees lower to to try and nip this in the bud, but all I did was lose a bit of power. As you can see from the maps I've attached below, my offsets say I need more gas. This issue actually started before I added cams and has sort of been a gradual loss of fuel economy over time.

I think both affected the mileage, plus the gunk on the valves.

FWIW don't be so hard on yourself, if you want help then HTT members will help.


we'll continue tomorrow

The other obvious obstacle to finding actual %TP @ XRPMs is that my netbook's battery is shot and has been for quite some time. Needs to plugged into an outlet continuously to run.  There's no running it for monitoring while riding, so we'll need to skip that part as well for now, unless you think it's advantageous to know %TP @ cruise speed.  Pretty sure I can manage that... 

I did the cams 5 years ago this coming September.  I installed the new pulley less than a month ago and I'm only on my 2nd tank of gas since doing so.  Not seeing a terrible drop in MPG (KPL) since the change.  Perhaps a little, but nothing real significant.

EDIT:
Again, the loss in MPG has been a gradual thing since around the time I installed the cam or maybe even before (wish I could remember with any degree of accuracy). Could it have to do with the unit ineffectively trying to compensate for the cam change?

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 26, 2016, 07:44:48 AM
Yep, think I'll do that and get the latest version of the PV when I have the money together. Maybe by then, somebody will have some software that will run on a MacBook. I have to say, tho, that the T-Max has been a solid performer given my limited knowledge. DTE has magically reappeared (not that I ever used it) and no more speedometer playing dead on me since the last firmware update earlier this year...
Other than those two little issues and this fuel issue (not the module's fault), I've been pretty happy with it...
Would you consider the wide-band O2 sensors for PV to be a "must-have"?  Those make the system cost a lot of coin for something that flashes the stock tuner.  From all I have read, tho, it seems like a fairly intuitive and user-friendly system...

I skipped over this earlier...

The PowerVersion Auto Tune [AT] works like you said, you use it only when tuning, then a final flash and you reinstall the old narrow band O2 sensors.

The PowerVision Target Tune works differently in that you install the wide-bands and flash a TT map and it runs/tunes continually like TMax does..

There are a couple of great PVTT threads here at HTT, and Jamie Long would be your go to guy; he is big on Wood cams, sells TMax and PVTT with maps included, and is a HTT Vendor 

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 26, 2016, 01:59:33 PM

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 09:41:55 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 24, 2016, 03:40:26 PM
@2048-3840RPM

Okay you got the 14.8 stuff

Now when you changed gearing you changed where cruise RPM is and where TPS is...

Look at the map above find 14.8, see how the curve going right changes [increases fuel / AFR towards 13.0 of the downward slope]
You might need the line going right longer before the the slope moves downward because of the gearing change.

My guess you did the gearing before the cams?

Quote
I adjusted the AFR a few degrees lower to to try and nip this in the bud, but all I did was lose a bit of power. As you can see from the maps I've attached below, my offsets say I need more gas. This issue actually started before I added cams and has sort of been a gradual loss of fuel economy over time.

I think both affected the mileage, plus the gunk on the valves.

FWIW don't be so hard on yourself, if you want help then HTT members will help.


we'll continue tomorrow

The other obvious obstacle to finding actual %TP @ XRPMs is that my netbook's battery is shot and has been for quite some time. Needs to plugged into an outlet continuously to run.  There's no running it for monitoring while riding, so we'll need to skip that part as well for now, unless you think it's advantageous to know %TP @ cruise speed.  Pretty sure I can manage that... 

I did the cams 5 years ago this coming September.  I installed the new pulley less than a month ago and I'm only on my 2nd tank of gas since doing so.  Not seeing a terrible drop in MPG (KPL) since the change.  Perhaps a little, but nothing real significant.

I was just getting ready to talk about the TPS again...

You do not need the computer while riding
You place the tape on the grip [I'm going to find that damn write up], and on the control side with a pointer mark.  Then hook up the computer to the bike, get the bike & software set LIKE you are going to flash but turn on monitor feature. In the TPS maps you will see a new vertical line at Closed Throttle.  on the tape make a mark next to the pointer mark, next rotate the grip until the line is at the TPS 29.6 and mark the grip again. next rotate the grip until the line is at the TPS 44.3 and mark the grip again.

Then you can add a couple more between 14.8-29.6 and 29.6-44.3

Unhook the bike & software [correctly like when loading software] and you are ready to ride

Find a long stretch of highway get cruising in 5th gear check the tape marks between the pointer mark and the scale remember that and the RPM [like 60, 65; not sure of your speed limit]; and we will use it to adjust your fuel curves 


edited: see post # 7 from Mayor
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,47622.msg498586.html#msg498586

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 02:17:11 PM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 26, 2016, 01:59:33 PM

Quote from: q1svt on July 26, 2016, 09:41:55 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 24, 2016, 03:40:26 PM
@2048-3840RPM

Okay you got the 14.8 stuff

Now when you changed gearing you changed where cruise RPM is and where TPS is...

Look at the map above find 14.8, see how the curve going right changes [increases fuel / AFR towards 13.0 of the downward slope]
You might need the line going right longer before the the slope moves downward because of the gearing change.

My guess you did the gearing before the cams?

Quote
I adjusted the AFR a few degrees lower to to try and nip this in the bud, but all I did was lose a bit of power. As you can see from the maps I've attached below, my offsets say I need more gas. This issue actually started before I added cams and has sort of been a gradual loss of fuel economy over time.

I think both affected the mileage, plus the gunk on the valves.

FWIW don't be so hard on yourself, if you want help then HTT members will help.


we'll continue tomorrow

The other obvious obstacle to finding actual %TP @ XRPMs is that my netbook's battery is shot and has been for quite some time. Needs to plugged into an outlet continuously to run.  There's no running it for monitoring while riding, so we'll need to skip that part as well for now, unless you think it's advantageous to know %TP @ cruise speed.  Pretty sure I can manage that... 

I did the cams 5 years ago this coming September.  I installed the new pulley less than a month ago and I'm only on my 2nd tank of gas since doing so.  Not seeing a terrible drop in MPG (KPL) since the change.  Perhaps a little, but nothing real significant.

I was just getting ready to talk about the TPS again...

You do not need the computer while riding
You place the tape on the grip [I'm going to find that damn write up], and on the control side with a pointer mark.  Then hook up the computer to the bike, get the bike & software set LIKE you are going to flash but turn on monitor feature. In the TPS maps you will see a new vertical line at Closed Throttle.  on the tape make a mark next to the pointer mark, next rotate the grip until the line is at the TPS 29.6 and mark the grip again. next rotate the grip until the line is at the TPS 44.3 and mark the grip again.

Then you can add a couple more between 14.8-29.6 and 29.6-44.3

Unhook the bike & software [correctly like when loading software] and you are ready to ride

Find a long stretch of highway get cruising in 5th gear check the tape marks between the pointer mark and the scale remember that and the RPM [like 60, 65; not sure of your speed limit]; and we will use it to adjust your fuel curves 


edited: see post # 7 from Mayor
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,47622.msg498586.html#msg498586

Okay...I'm an idiot.  LOL.  And all this time I was envisioning some lunacy like cruising down the road standing on the floorboards w/o a seat, and my computer duct taped to the handlebars   

I'll get right on that and post the result this evening....

 

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 24, 2016, 03:40:26 PM
@2048-3840RPM

Okay Shane, it took sometime but I found your [very] old base map... well the most current revised copy is the one I have.

You can see the fuel curve is what we have been discussing... [below pic]

Since I would like to see if we can fix the fuel mileage first, and you have other changes within your current map eg like IAC, I would ask that you make a copy of your current map and then copy and post the entire Air/Fuel - TPS @ RPM pages FROM MAP 846, into your map and load to the bike.  Will need some riding time for the WB O2's to correct the difference in the fuel PW tables.

here is a link with how to do it...
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,91980.msg1063178.html#msg1063178 

Here's TP@cruise results.  Let me know if you have any questions...

]





On another note, I got 200km out of this tank, used 14 liters which equates to approximately 33mpg. Mostly hwy mileage, tho...

Quote from: q1svt on July 27, 2016, 09:02:52 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 24, 2016, 03:40:26 PM
@2048-3840RPM

Okay Shane, it took sometime but I found your [very] old base map... well the most current revised copy is the one I have.

You can see the fuel curve is what we have been discussing... [below pic]

Since I would like to see if we can fix the fuel mileage first, and you have other changes within your current map eg like IAC, I would ask that you make a copy of your current map and then copy and post the entire Air/Fuel - TPS @ RPM pages FROM MAP 846, into your map and load to the bike.  Will need some riding time for the WB O2's to correct the difference in the fuel PW tables.

here is a link with how to do it...
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,91980.msg1063178.html#msg1063178

Okay. I've copied the AFRvsTPS files to my currently loaded map. I'll load the map to my bike, go top off the tank and let you know what that does as soon as I have some info to work with.  I'll go ahead and put in the fuel additive as well.

Update:
Loaded map, put in fuel additive, topped off tank, rode about 30kms (18.5mi).  Seemed to have good, smooth acceleration and didin't seem to be lacking much at all in power, although the map is for a stock cam, as well... Let me know if there's anything I'm supposed to be looking for, data you want me to gather and/or send, or changes you think I should make. Again, appreciate all the time and effort you're putting in on my behalf. 

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 28, 2016, 12:29:28 AM
Here's TP@cruise results.  Let me know if you have any questions...

]





On another note, I got 200km out of this tank, used 14 liters which equates to approximately 33mpg. Mostly hwy mileage, tho...

Now that you know the TPS to Maping the cruise is rich.  Looks to be 13.6+- .  If you place your curser on one of the boxes and click on it, then hit the space bar it will open a text box giving the TPS, actual fuel AFR, etc.  Then can use the <<  >> arrows to move the text box left & right, and hit the space bar to remove the text box...

The new fuel curve from Map 846 needs to dial in the PW, and the fuel additive needs to clean [I'm figuring about three/four tanks of gas].  We hopefully should see a mileage increasing towards your old 280-300km but with the cam & gearing it will be less.

Then time for a new map...


Good job on the tape job.    I did find the scale interesting in that the distance between 0 [14.8] - 29.6 is larger than and the distance between 29.6 - 44.3 .  Do you find that the throttle moves before the RPM's change?  I'm thinking maybe you need to adjust the cable slop... the manual has instructions on the how to and specifications [I like the fit on the small side about 1/32" - 1/6"] and extra on the return cable.

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 28, 2016, 01:09:05 AM
Okay. I've copied the AFRvsTPS files to my currently loaded map. I'll load the map to my bike, go top off the tank and let you know what that does as soon as I have some info to work with.  I'll go ahead and put in the fuel additive as well.

Update:
Loaded map, put in fuel additive, topped off tank, rode about 30kms (18.5mi).  Seemed to have good, smooth acceleration and didin't seem to be lacking much at all in power, although the map is for a stock cam, as well... Let me know if there's anything I'm supposed to be looking for, data you want me to gather and/or send, or changes you think I should make. Again, appreciate all the time and effort you're putting in on my behalf.

Nope just  and let the fuel cleaner and TMax do their thing.

Like I said you were interested in learning, had skills and I thought your issues are/were similar to many other TMax uses.  Based on the number of thread hits people are following your journey... 

Quote from: q1svt on July 28, 2016, 06:37:07 AM

Now that you know the TPS to Maping the cruise is rich.  Looks to be 13.6+- .  If you place your curser on one of the boxes and click on it, then hit the space bar it will open a text box giving the TPS, actual fuel AFR, etc.  Then can use the <<  >> arrows to move the text box left & right, and hit the space bar to remove the text box...

The new fuel curve from Map 846 needs to dial in the PW, and the fuel additive needs to clean [I'm figuring about three/four tanks of gas].  We hopefully should see a mileage increasing towards your old 280-300km but with the cam & gearing it will be less.

Then time for a new map...


Good job on the tape job.    I did find the scale interesting in that the distance between 0 [14.8] - 29.6 is larger than and the distance between 29.6 - 44.3 .  Do you find that the throttle moves before the RPM's change?  I'm thinking maybe you need to adjust the cable slop... the manual has instructions on the how to and specifications [I like the fit on the small side about 1/32" - 1/6"] and extra on the return cable.

What approximate mixture should I be shooting for during cruise? 

I do have a little play in my throttle, but I made sure that it was backed completely out before putting the "0" marker on there. It's been awhile, but since I have 18" apes with pretty long throttle cables, I don't think I was able to adjust the play completely out.  Also, I could have sworn that the vertical TP line started about halfway between 0 and 14.8 on the table. I'd have to go back into monitoring mode and and look again with the bike linked up, but I don't think that TP position line was exactly at 14.8 with the throttle closed. First marker (after 0) is of course the halfway mark between 14.8 and 29.6...

I only bought 2 tank's worth (1 bottle) of additive.  Should I go back and buy another bottle, then? Wako's if very proud of their product, at around 17 bucks for 300mL, but I'll definitely go and get some more if you think it would be more beneficial to run it for more than 2 tanks of gas.

Quote from: q1svt on July 28, 2016, 06:48:56 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 28, 2016, 01:09:05 AM
Okay. I've copied the AFRvsTPS files to my currently loaded map. I'll load the map to my bike, go top off the tank and let you know what that does as soon as I have some info to work with.  I'll go ahead and put in the fuel additive as well.

Update:
Loaded map, put in fuel additive, topped off tank, rode about 30kms (18.5mi).  Seemed to have good, smooth acceleration and didin't seem to be lacking much at all in power, although the map is for a stock cam, as well... Let me know if there's anything I'm supposed to be looking for, data you want me to gather and/or send, or changes you think I should make. Again, appreciate all the time and effort you're putting in on my behalf.

Nope just  and let the fuel cleaner and TMax do their thing.

Like I said you were interested in learning, had skills and I thought your issues are/were similar to many other TMax uses.  Based on the number of thread hits people are following your journey...

"Skills"...funny you should mention that.  Cuz I had another idiot moment yesterday while trying to do the throttle markers. Y'see, I thought the bike had to be running for that, but I live in a small neighborhood with lots of people around who hate noise, so I asked my dealer if I could borrow an outdoor outlet for my PC and some parking lot space to work on a tune.  They're a small, family-owned dealer and always do me good that way, but when they heard me revving my bike trying to get it up to that first marker the store manager ran out and was like, "woah, woah...what the hell ya trying ta do, here?"  I shut it down and started thinking, "I must be doing something wrong with the bike screaming (in neutral..Lol) just to get it up to 29.6"  Then a light went off in my head..."wait, nobody said the bike had to be RUNNING and these things do have a TPS, so maybe...just MAYbe, the TP line moves without the bike running. Sure enough... Thanks for the thought, tho. LOL

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 28, 2016, 07:20:45 AM
What approximate mixture should I be shooting for during cruise? 

I do have a little play in my throttle, but I made sure that it was backed completely out before putting the "0" marker on there. It's been awhile, but since I have 18" apes with pretty long throttle cables, I don't think I was able to adjust the play completely out.  Also, I could have sworn that the vertical TP line started about halfway between 0 and 14.8 on the table. I'd have to go back into monitoring mode and and look again with the bike linked up, but I don't think that TP position line was exactly at 14.8 with the throttle closed. First marker (after 0) is of course the halfway mark between 14.8 and 29.6...

I only bought 2 tank's worth (1 bottle) of additive.  Should I go back and buy another bottle, then? Wako's if very proud of their product, at around 17 bucks for 300mL, but I'll definitely go and get some more if you think it would be more beneficial to run it for more than 2 tanks of gas.

For what we're doing the 846 fuel curve is fine... you can check the text box but looks to be 13,8+ .  14.1 is Lamda for oxygenated gas [that's why I ask you earlier  ].  You mentioned that when you leaned the old mapping it lost power... When we switch to a new map for your TW-555 we will play a little, THEN I'll pass you to 'whittle beast' he has some good tools to review fuel & data logs.  And hopefully 'Admiral Akbar' will come out of retirement and share his TMax data logging, how to convert the data into other manageable formats and his SMLIV knowledge.

My guess is it will take more cleaner... but wait, run the two tanks and assess the impact of those tanks and what the mileage is doing.

Only mentioned the cable adjustment as a FYI, if it works for you then ride it. 

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 28, 2016, 07:39:01 AM

Quote from: q1svt on July 28, 2016, 06:48:56 AM

Quote from: JapanDrifter on July 28, 2016, 01:09:05 AM
Okay. I've copied the AFRvsTPS files to my currently loaded map. I'll load the map to my bike, go top off the tank and let you know what that does as soon as I have some info to work with.  I'll go ahead and put in the fuel additive as well.

Update:
Loaded map, put in fuel additive, topped off tank, rode about 30kms (18.5mi).  Seemed to have good, smooth acceleration and didin't seem to be lacking much at all in power, although the map is for a stock cam, as well... Let me know if there's anything I'm supposed to be looking for, data you want me to gather and/or send, or changes you think I should make. Again, appreciate all the time and effort you're putting in on my behalf.

Nope just  and let the fuel cleaner and TMax do their thing.

Like I said you were interested in learning, had skills and I thought your issues are/were similar to many other TMax uses.  Based on the number of thread hits people are following your journey...

"Skills"...funny you should mention that.  Cuz I had another idiot moment yesterday while trying to do the throttle markers. Y'see, I thought the bike had to be running for that, but I live in a small neighborhood with lots of people around who hate noise, so I asked my dealer if I could borrow an outdoor outlet for my PC and some parking lot space to work on a tune.  They're a small, family-owned dealer and always do me good that way, but when they heard me revving my bike trying to get it up to that first marker the store manager ran out and was like, "woah, woah...what the hell ya trying ta do, here?"  I shut it down and started thinking, "I must be doing something wrong with the bike screaming (in neutral..Lol) just to get it up to 29.6"  Then a light went off in my head..."wait, nobody said the bike had to be RUNNING and these things do have a TPS, so maybe...just MAYbe, the TP line moves without the bike running. Sure enough... Thanks for the thought, tho. LOL

  that's what learning is about... as long as I didn't do any harm during that    moment, I'm good.

Okay I got to my windows machine...   

For those following without access to the TMax software here is the AFR @ cruise

[attach=0]  

Quote from: q1svt on July 28, 2016, 08:54:10 AM
Okay I got to my windows machine...   

For those following without access to the TMax software here is the AFR @ cruise

[attach=0]

Just curious. Any reason not to go to 14.2-14.5 in cruise?
Ron