HarleyTechTalk

I'd like to measure my crank's sprocket shaft runout while I wait on some other things. What's the best way to do this for a DIY person that doesn't have all the fancy tools some of you guys have? I have one of those flex arm indicator holders that I think has wires inside that tighten by a lever at the end.

Quote from: mattVA on January 20, 2016, 05:49:31 AM
I'd like to measure my crank's sprocket shaft runout while I wait on some other things. What's the best way to do this for a DIY person that doesn't have all the fancy tools some of you guys have? I have one of those flex arm indicator holders that I think has wires inside that tighten by a lever at the end.

I take it the crank is in the case? Bolt a plate, rod or whatever from the case that will end up at the end of the shaft. Should be fairly rigid.  Move it around to just barely make contact on the shaft, checking it at each 90 degrees. 45* checks would be better.  Check the gap with feeler gauges at each of those 45 or 90 degrees to come up with the differences.
Ron

Most dial indicator probes have nut which can be used to retain a snow ski type probe on the end of the indicator similar to the attachment used with Trock valve measuring kit. 

  I believe they are called button indicators . Mine has a 5/16" button on it , makes it allot easier for checking splined shafts

Quote from: 2006FXDCI on January 20, 2016, 07:37:50 AM
I believe they are called button indicators . Mine has a 5/16" button on it , makes it allot easier for checking splined shafts

Got a pic? Having trouble finding it online

http://www.victornet.com/detail/AA-9366.html

Maybe you could just hold a thin feeler gauge between the indicator & the splines & rotate it slowly?

Quote from: koko3052 on January 20, 2016, 03:59:11 PM
Maybe you could just hold a thin feeler gauge between the indicator & the splines & rotate it slowly?

I see we think alike. My reply #1 is the same idea. Crude but effective if no other indicators available.
Ron

1.  Purchase an indicator that reads in .0001" increments

2.  Make a snow ski attachment curved up from a .060" feeler gauge on the end to read directly from the splines

3.  Fewer details/attachments between the splines and the indicator probe the more accurate the readings.

Quote from: rbabos on January 20, 2016, 04:34:37 PM

Quote from: koko3052 on January 20, 2016, 03:59:11 PM
Maybe you could just hold a thin feeler gauge between the indicator & the splines & rotate it slowly?

I see we think alike. My reply #1 is the same idea. Crude but effective if no other indicators available.
Ron

Yes Ron, we work with what we have at hand....& yes....I'm a cheap S.O.B!!

Once you've figured out a way to mount the indicator base to the engine so that it is rigid it should be pretty straight forward. Set the tip of the indicator, whether a dial drop indicator or dial test indicator, on the crown of the splined shaft with only about a .01" or so preload on the indicator, set your zero, & then rotate the shaft. As you rotate the shaft note the amount of indicator travel in one full turn. That is the amount of runout or T.I.R. (Total Indicated Runout).

I think the point was missed. He don't have any fancy ass dial indicators for the job and was looking the an alternative method that will work.
Ron

Quote from: rbabos on January 22, 2016, 11:40:33 AM
I think the point was missed. He don't have any fancy ass dial indicators for the job and was looking the an alternative method that will work.
Ron

He used a dial indicator in another post to measure run out at the cam plate bushing diameter.  S&S trues their assemblies to .001" or less when measured at the main bearing race diameter not the spline or cam plate bushing diameter.  Does not make a lot of sense to compare apples to lemons.

Quote from: lisab on January 22, 2016, 12:16:27 PM

Quote from: rbabos on January 22, 2016, 11:40:33 AM
I think the point was missed. He don't have any fancy ass dial indicators for the job and was looking the an alternative method that will work.
Ron

He used a dial indicator in another post to measure run out at the cam plate bushing diameter.  S&S trues their assemblies to .001" or less when measured at the main bearing race diameter not the spline or cam plate bushing diameter.  Does not make a lot of sense to compare apples to lemons.

Then I don't know why he even asked the question then if he has the indicator. Not rocket science to move to the other side of the engine with the only helpful item is a flat foot for the indicator tip. That is also optional as you can lift the probe at each gap or two for the next high point reading.
Ron
Ron

I made a sleeve that slips over the splines, makes checking this a breeze. 2 cents..

Quote from: MCE on January 22, 2016, 05:18:00 PM
I made a sleeve that slips over the splines, makes checking this a breeze. 2 cents..

my thoughts also 

Quote from: MCE on January 22, 2016, 05:18:00 PM
I made a sleeve that slips over the splines, makes checking this a breeze. 2 cents..

Mind making another? Bike is down for a bit wouldn't mind getting an accurate measurement for future reference

Quote from: lisab on January 22, 2016, 12:16:27 PM

Quote from: rbabos on January 22, 2016, 11:40:33 AM
I think the point was missed. He don't have any fancy ass dial indicators for the job and was looking the an alternative method that will work.
Ron

He used a dial indicator in another post to measure run out at the cam plate bushing diameter.  S&S trues their assemblies to .001" or less when measured at the main bearing race diameter not the spline or cam plate bushing diameter.  Does not make a lot of sense to compare apples to lemons.

I agree with what counts is where S&S measures the run out, but it's a good idea to check when in the cases, just so you have a reference to check against later. This also insures you have a straight pinion shaft, the oil pump won't last long otherwise. 

Quote from: mattVA on January 22, 2016, 08:03:24 PM

Quote from: MCE on January 22, 2016, 05:18:00 PM
I made a sleeve that slips over the splines, makes checking this a breeze. 2 cents..

Mind making another? Bike is down for a bit wouldn't mind getting an accurate measurement for future reference

use the splined adapter from the compensator considering the variables as accurate as a slip fit sleeve>

Quote from: lisab on January 23, 2016, 07:18:24 AM

Quote from: mattVA on January 22, 2016, 08:03:24 PM

Quote from: MCE on January 22, 2016, 05:18:00 PM
I made a sleeve that slips over the splines, makes checking this a breeze. 2 cents..

Mind making another? Bike is down for a bit wouldn't mind getting an accurate measurement for future reference

use the splined adapter from the compensator considering the variables as accurate as a slip fit sleeve>

Will do.

Quote from: lisab on January 21, 2016, 07:59:36 AM
1.  Purchase an indicator that reads in .0001" increments
That would be a finger type with a moving tip not a travel indicator

2.  Make a snow ski attachment curved up from a .060" feeler gauge on the end to read directly from the splines
Not sure a true finger type indicator could use such a tip, on a travel indicator they are threaded 4-40 IIRC

3.  Fewer details/attachments between the splines and the indicator probe the more accurate the readings. Agreed

I would use a standard travel indicator and a button attachment firmly mounted plate on the case and a good mag base

Quote from: mattVA on January 23, 2016, 08:27:04 AM

Quote from: lisab on January 23, 2016, 07:18:24 AM

Quote from: mattVA on January 22, 2016, 08:03:24 PM

Quote from: MCE on January 22, 2016, 05:18:00 PM
I made a sleeve that slips over the splines, makes checking this a breeze. 2 cents..

Mind making another? Bike is down for a bit wouldn't mind getting an accurate measurement for future reference

use the splined adapter from the compensator considering the variables as accurate as a slip fit sleeve>

Will do.

Don't expect that to be accurate. There is clearance and runout within the splines.
Best to go directly to the shaft.
Ron

Quote from: rbabos on January 23, 2016, 09:47:08 AM

Quote from: mattVA on January 23, 2016, 08:27:04 AM

Quote from: lisab on January 23, 2016, 07:18:24 AM

Quote from: mattVA on January 22, 2016, 08:03:24 PM

Quote from: MCE on January 22, 2016, 05:18:00 PM
I made a sleeve that slips over the splines, makes checking this a breeze. 2 cents..

Mind making another? Bike is down for a bit wouldn't mind getting an accurate measurement for future reference

use the splined adapter from the compensator considering the variables as accurate as a slip fit sleeve>

Will do.

Don't expect that to be accurate. There is clearance and runout within the splines.
Best to go directly to the shaft.
Ron

How did you arrive at the conclusion of spline run out, how did you measure it and is it repeatable !!   Splines are formed on spline rolling machine with certified tooling and are gauged with certified fixtures. 36 Years in axle forging and manufacturing.

Isn't Matt just checking the New S&S crank to get a baseline?

The sleeve idea... HD service manual says don't use the splined piece associated to the compensator.   On a tight set of splines I would think it's not going to be too far off.  I used the sleeve as a quick check before I did my original rebuild.  There was a slight difference to running the indicator directly on the splines, actually read truer.   So, IMO, it's not unreasonable just to get a peek at whats up.  Use the bolt to insure it's held in place snug.

Quote from: rageglide on January 23, 2016, 11:48:14 AM
Isn't Matt just checking the New S&S crank to get a baseline?

The sleeve idea... HD service manual says don't use the splined piece associated to the compensator.   On a tight set of splines I would think it's not going to be too far off.  I used the sleeve as a quick check before I did my original rebuild.  There was a slight difference to running the indicator directly on the splines, actually read truer.   So, IMO, it's not unreasonable just to get a peek at whats up.  Use the bolt to insure it's held in place snug.

Yes I am. Didn't mean to start a whole long thread of controversy over proper measurement technique. I guess for my purpose it doesn't matter which way I go as long as I do the same thing next time I'm in there. As has already been pointed out S&S specs their runout at the races so any # I get at the end of the shaft isn't really relevant other than as a point of reference for myself.