HarleyTechTalk

Which is better?  I like running oil in the primary to keep the compensator lubed.  I've heard that trans fluid or trick shift is the ticket for carbon fiber disks.  Is tranny fluid good enough to lube the compensator?

Both are good and will last a long time if properly lubed.
Just stick with the manufacturer recomendations.
Lots of good oils out there.

When considering the Alto Carbonite plates, I asked their senior technical director what fluid do I need to run in the primary?
" It doesn't really matter, run anything you want, the only thing we have seen any issues with is the Drag (Specialties) stuff."

A quart of HD Formula+ (wet fill) and all is well in my world...

I've been using the Carbonites with a quart of Bel-Ray 80 weight Gear Saver. Everything seems happy in there.

Right on.  I appreciate the feedback.  I have been using Rotella 20/50 dino oil in the primary and it seems to be doing ok.  Thanks again.

Barnett Carbon fiber is really good. 

I just spoke to Barnett a few weeks ago about their Scorpion clutch.  They said use a full quart of anything I like except Formula + which he said gummed up their clutch plates.   -Tutt

Does tranny fluid provide enough lubrication for the compensator?

My impression was no from the last thread I saw on the subject.  Maybe Max will answer as he is here a lot more than I am.  -Tutt 

 It is my opinion that ATF should be left in an automatic transmission!!!  The oil in the primary has to lube the compensator, the chain, chain slider, the clutch and supply enough oil to be flung up to keep the IPB bearing alive. On top of all that there needs to be enough oil volume to pull the heat from the stator/rotor to keep it from baking itself. I would run a minimum of 1 quart of real primary fluid, I've used simple Drag Specialties Primary Fluid for 10 plus years, my comp still looks like new. (01 Dyna). I see no reason why it wouldn't perform the same in newer bikes.  fwiw  Buffalo

That's the reason I'll be going with a Barnett Scorpion clutch.  I called Pro Rivera and talked to their tech department too.  She initially recommended ATF and less of it.  When I questioned her about compensator life, she said run whatever I needed to work with the comp.  Barnett was the only company that said out the gate run a full quart of whatever you want except for Formula Plus which is great for the comp but not so good with Barnett clutch plates. 

Regards,

-Tutt 

ATFs are great for chain primaries.
It's a chain flying around in there and the clutch packs are in the same family as auto trannys.
Unless ATF is bad for a certain type of friction materal, use ATF type oils.
They flow well and lube well, don't be afraid of em.

Forgot to mention I run a Primo Pro clutch and have for 10 years, all stock, and with std primary oils.
It has never slipped and is totaly original.  Buffalo

It sounds like the clutch doesn't care what kind of oil is running through it.  I never gave a thought to helping keeping the charging system cool.  Sounds like oil is still going to work.

I like kelvar myself .

Quote from: BigNorm1 on March 29, 2016, 05:51:20 AM
It sounds like the clutch doesn't care what kind of oil is running through it.  I never gave a thought to helping keeping the charging system cool.  Sounds like oil is still going to work.

Yes some of them do care, especially the "+1" Plate Kits, they have to run ATF to get the "drag" out of them... Due to the lack of adjustability the Hydraulic units are the pickiest...

Alto tells me it doesn't really matter on their Carbonite Kits (+1)...

Alto is the 800lb gorilla in Clutches, they private label for a lot of companies.

http://www.altousa.com/

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on March 29, 2016, 08:32:57 AM
I like kelvar myself .

What is the difference between Kevlar and carbon fiber performance wise?  A lot of folks seem to like the carbon fiber.  What are stock disks made out of?

well the black fibers called carbon fiber or carbonite seems to re act the same way for my set up.  After getting some heat put into  the fibers I would get a lurch squawk  deal where as the red kelvar hooks just as hard but better smoother engagement . Steels where flat and fluid type did not matter..

I am sure that there are several materials and % of this or that in one or the other. I used Barnett products so where ever they get them or make them.

I have found that Ford (non syn type) ATF has a easier shift feel. goes into gear with liter effort at the shift point. Less drag between plates? Primo states this type should be used. As for comp wear, i install the comp saver for a little more fluid also. Oem oils shifted a bit harded (EVEN WITH ADJUSTMENT TO UNIT)but are less noisy due to thicker fluid. I would post question brought up here on cooling effect of different types to IPB and other lubed items in primary. This fluid (ATF) is due to material used by Primo??

Quote from: BigNorm1 on March 28, 2016, 12:33:22 PM
Does tranny fluid provide enough lubrication for the compensator?

No.
it isn't near as fatal on the old comps. but the SE comps need lube.

It seems like the age old game of compromises.  ATF works better for the clutch but doesn't lube the compensator as well as regular oil would and may or may not cool as well as oil.  Thanks for the note on the old type F fluid.

QuoteIt seems like the age old game of compromises.  ATF works better for the clutch but doesn't lube the compensator as well as regular oil would and may or may not cool as well as oil.  Thanks for the note on the old type F fluid.

Norm, that was my takeaway too after talking to all the clutch manufacturers.  They know what works well with their clutches, but less so the compensators. 

I trust Stroker on this one myself.  And he seldom even recommends welding a crank!  LOL  So if he is recommending a better fluid, I'm on his side!  LOL 

I got the same message from Rivera regarding Ford ATF, but they quickly back-tracked when I mentioned comp life.  Hmmmmm.   

IMHO the best solution is to run a clutch that accepts a full quart of something other than ATF (Ford or otherwise), lubes the SE comp with some sort of tray, and your probably good to go in both worlds. 

Regards,

-Tutt

Posted a great recipe here;   http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,89781.0.html

Since it works this well on the Hydraulic Clutches, the Cable Clutches are a piece of cake...

Perfect Clutch behavior, with a Fluid that the Compensator can live with...

Quote from: FlaHeatWave on March 29, 2016, 06:25:04 PM
Posted a great recipe here;   http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,89781.0.html

Since it works this well on the Hydraulic Clutches, the Cable Clutches are a piece of cake...

Perfect Clutch behavior, with a Fluid that the Compensator can live with...

But it's got a VPC on it..  And why are you looking for a lighter spring?

Quote from: Max Headflow on March 29, 2016, 06:31:42 PM

Quote from: FlaHeatWave on March 29, 2016, 06:25:04 PM
Posted a great recipe here;   http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,89781.0.html

Since it works this well on the Hydraulic Clutches, the Cable Clutches are a piece of cake...

Perfect Clutch behavior, with a Fluid that the Compensator can live with...

But it's got a VPC on it..  And why are you looking for a lighter spring?

What is the downside to the VPC, other than the pressures (on the system / Throwout Bearing) at higher RPMs??

"However, since this thing has "plenty of Clutch" and feels like it will handle much more than the 117 produces, I am wanting to try a Stock Clutch Spring (300lb, maybe a 280lb?) with this set-up, theory being less stress on the Hydraulics / Bearings, and easier Lever Pull in stop n go..."

The AIM 95 / SE 380lb Spring combo is rated for 160 ft/lbs at 4k RPM w/ the Stock Clutch, and the Alto Carbonite Kit definitely adds grip throughout the RPM range, how much IDK?, the 117 is in the 130s.  My thinking is the 300lb Spring (maybe a 280lb Spring ?) will reduce stress on the Components, not slip anywhere, and reduce lever effort < 3500 where most folks ride the majority of the time...

The lever effort is not an issue for me, I'd like to help others find a solution where lever effort is a concern for them...