HarleyTechTalk

So I'm setting up my brand new PV and I got a map from Roy at Dynojet for my build. I'm running a 2007 ECM and Roy had sent me a 2006 map but assured me that it won't make any difference.

Question is, I configured some gauges with 2 being the o2 sensor voltage and another the throttle position percentage. When I crank my throttle all the way open it only reads 85% yet the blade is definitely all the way open. What exactly should I change in my map to make this more accurate? Should I increase or decrease the crank steps setting 15%? Or increase/decrease the IAC crank to run table by 15%? Or just not do anything just yet? I did mention to Roy that it was a 58MM throttle body with 6.2g injectors, so maybe this is a way to dial it back a bit during break in? Maybe my TPS is bad? As I'm writing this, I'm thinking maybe there is a TPS voltage reading I can do to make sure it isn't bad?

Thanks in advance

THrottle cables adjusted so the bell crank hits the stops for both open and closed? Does it read zero when the throttle is closed? If so, do a slow roll open and see if the reading stalls anywhere- If it does, the TPS is likely the culprit.  Swap a TPS from a known good unit and retest.

thanks for the reply rigid, yes the cables are adjusted so it hits both of the stops, I will check the "slow roll" after work

There is a problem with the TPS, harness or otherwise; you dont want to start adjusting tables to counter an improper functioning sensor. Simply take another TPS, plug it and test it with a flatblade, if it goes to 100% install it on the TB and retest.

ill try that too, thanks Jamie

I've had one of those SE cable 58's that only opened to 85% stop to stop. Is the blade completely horizontal? I will see if I can find the data files.

actually, the blade doesn't go COMPLETELY horizontal but it does hit the fully open stop, so if it IS only going 85% open, then shouldn't the PV consider it 100% and adjust to that instead of the PHYSICAL 100%?

Full stop on your grip or the metal stop on the throttle body?

Metal stop on the throttle body

What does it show when closed?  Have you ran the bike at all?  Did it show 100% with the stock calibration?

Ok, well here's what I did last night, I checked the throttle % gauge again, closed it reads 0% fully open it reads 85%. I tried the "slow roll" and it never hung up through the entire travel from fully closed to fully open. Then I took it off and manually turned the sensor and it ran all the way up to 100% so it doesn't look as though it's the sensor. But, I'd like to know what the voltage readings should be just for my own knowledge and I'm not sure if PV offers a TPS voltage option either? But I do have another new one on the way though just in case. The bike it's self hasn't been running yet with this new PV as my tank it at paint. and I guess I could try it with the stock map, but the stock map was for an 07 and my throttle body is the SE 58MM that was made for 08 and above I believe?

There is a live data option for throttle position voltage.  Before you start replacing anything I would try running the bike a couple of times and see if the ecm figures it out.  Does it show 0% before the throttle closes? 

no I don't believe it does show zero before it closes. But I would be rather surprised if the ECM just figures out what 100% is Joe?? How could it do that? This isn't TBW so there's no sensor in the grip itself so what other information could it make that assumption/change based on? So if it's not recommended to change anything yet, is there someplace in WinPV that I can tell it it's a 58MM TB? I thought I looked through it and have been reading the manual, but It's not the first time I've missed something. And lastly, just playing devils advocate here, I've already created a "testing and familiarization" map, can't I just play around on that one, load it, test it, then compare it to my base map sent to me from Dynojet, and make changes if I choose? Just a thought.

Nope, nothing in the calibration for telling it there is a 58mm throttle body, just injectors.  If the scaling is off and the ecm is reading 0% when the throttle is truly at 15% then yes it would relearn 0% after a few on off cycles or it should any way.  Is this a brand new 58mm throttle body?  Cant remember but don't the 58mm throttle body's have an adjustable throttle stop for the WOT?  Take some pics if you could.  I'm probably wrong

joe, I have put the correct 6.2 injector size in but what it's doing is when it's closed it reads zero as it should, but when it's open all the way to the throttle stop it's at 85%. It's a used TB and there is an adjustable throttle stop, but I BELIEVE its for idle, not WOT? But I'll check to make sure. I'll have pics on here tomorrow. Thanks for your help

Quote from: lost_harley on April 26, 2016, 11:53:05 AM
joe, I have put the correct 6.2 injector size in but what it's doing is when it's closed it reads zero as it should, but when it's open all the way to the throttle stop it's at 85%. It's a used TB and there is an adjustable throttle stop, but I BELIEVE its for idle, not WOT? But I'll check to make sure. I'll have pics on here tomorrow. Thanks for your help

Just so you know, it will read 0 if the blade is open quite a bit. Ecm sets that on a key on event. So if you start with the blade 1/8 open for whatever reason the ECM will set that to 0. Down side is from 0-100 you lost that first 1/8 or whatever % that is so now it will only go to a less amount the 100%. Do a  voltage check on the tps to see if it's putting out max voltage at wfo.  If it is, the initial blade opening is too much at the start point. I'd bet the tps volts is too high on the close throttle as well.
Ron

Ron, that is some very good advice and I hadn't even CONSIDERED that approach!!! Thank you sir, I will check that!

The ECM references the 0-5V signal from the TPS, at key-on it reads the voltage and sets this as 0% TP assuming the throttle is in the closed position. The throttle blade itself has about 90 degrees rotation from full closed to full open, if the throttle blade is not in its fully closed position (from the throttle stop, the cables hanging up, damaged throttle shaft, etc..) when you turn the switch on the ECM is going to set this as the zero point, when the throttle is fully opened the ECM is not going to read 100%, its going to come up short as you have reduced the amount of degrees of blade angle. The ECM calibration does not affect TPS operation, there is nothing that is configured in the calibration, and changing maps will not affect this.

Quote from: Jamie Long on April 27, 2016, 09:06:20 AM
The ECM references the 0-5V signal from the TPS, at key-on it reads the voltage and sets this as 0% TP assuming the throttle is in the closed position. The throttle blade itself has about 90 degrees rotation from full closed to full open, if the throttle blade is not in its fully closed position (from the throttle stop, the cables hanging up, damaged throttle shaft, etc..) when you turn the switch on the ECM is going to set this as the zero point, when the throttle is fully opened the ECM is not going to read 100%, its going to come up short as you have reduced the amount of degrees of blade angle. The ECM calibration does not affect TPS operation, there is nothing that is configured in the calibration, and changing maps will not affect this.

That's a better explanation of what I was trying to convey. IAC will likely have lost it's ability to control idle by the as well if the blade is open too far.
Ron

Gentlemen, this is my last and final update. I figured it out. After replacing my TPS with a new one, I was still getting the same readings, so I removed the SE Heavy breather and throttle body to get a better look at the mechanism. When I could get a better look, I noticed the side where the cables attach, was not fully coming in contact with the idle adjustment screw (see attached pic, the arrow indicates where it was not fully closing) so I loosened the nut, and the spring caused it too immediately adjust to the idle screw mount giving the length of travel to the TB enough room to open a full 90 degrees and show a TPS reading of 100%. I reinstalled the TB and intake, tested again, and I think I am golden. Thank you all for your help

Glad to hear you got it fixed.

Thanks Joe, sometimes it's the simple things I have a tendency to overlook. That goodness for this site. I can't tell you how many times people on here have kept me grounded.

Maybe if you didn't dispose of the previous TPS yet you'll have a good spare?

SHO 'nuff. I kept it.