HarleyTechTalk

If any continue to smoke I doubt their EPA/CARB cert is valid. That might be an unknown free Stage V or greater mod from HD.

If they shift like a Honda that would indicate an improvement...the M8 I rod shifted smoothly like most JA motorcycles I've owned.

Quote from: FLHRI_2004 on September 23, 2016, 05:04:00 PM
I didn't see any "smokers" at the demo rides at York today.  And they do still run every bike on the rollers up to highway speed.

So every bike gets run at the factory.  However, I'm not sure the tester would notice any smoke if any since the exhaust fan would likely suck it right out before the tester could notice it.

See posting #59 and #60.

No, the bikes may or may not get run @ the factory, they do not hot test the engines any more  they spin them up with an electrical motor and check oil pressure and for leaks, if it passes in the bike it goes  if not it gets scrapped

Maybe they should leave out the side plugs and see if oil flies out the holes?

BMW has done similar pre-installation testing for years. See 06:30 on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD6kGafB2to

But they also test run the final product: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWA9vrxhyE

They still have dealer PDI inspections don't they? 

Quote from: HD Street Performance on September 25, 2016, 09:02:53 AM
They still have dealer PDI inspections don't they? 

yes and HD has been notified on what we have seen on the few with only 6 miles on them. we have sold several and have a demo with miles on them with no issues at all.

So my point is any of these issues would be handled at the dealer level.
My goodness lets' let the population increase before condemning them.

..." yes and HD has been notified on what we have seen on the few with only 6 miles on them. we have sold several and have a demo with miles on them with no issues at all."


Has there been any correlation between S/N, production date, and issues?

Well due to a issue on one of the bikes in the group our trip was shorter than we thought and I was working in a parking lot fixing a bike . However it did not smoke under normal riding . But we got caught in traffic a few times and it would just puff blue smoke. The trip was right at 1200 miles. The bike used 1.5 qts of oil on the trip . He is planning on taking it back this week. It ran well no issues there but when he would decell it would would smoke and idle in idle traffic it was huffing pretty good .   Overall that was the only issue it ran great got good MPG , seemed to be hotter than any stage 1 bike but it was 100% stock

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 26, 2016, 07:26:40 AM
Well due to a issue on one of the bikes in the group our trip was shorter than we thought and I was working in a parking lot fixing a bike . However it did not smoke under normal riding . But we got caught in traffic a few times and it would just puff blue smoke. The trip was right at 1200 miles. The bike used 1.5 qts of oil on the trip . He is planning on taking it back this week. It ran well no issues there but when he would decell it would would smoke and idle in idle traffic it was huffing pretty good .   Overall that was the only issue it ran great got good MPG , seemed to be hotter than any stage 1 bike but it was 100% stock

Well we both know what possible sources that's from. Sure as hell isn't breakin or rings. Again, I ask you, was this an oil cooled version or twin cooled?
Ron

NON water cooled model sorry I missed that.  I will say that they both are large people and the bike did very well in the mountains and he was happy, with that.

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 26, 2016, 09:03:15 AM
NON water cooled model sorry I missed that.  I will say that they both are large people and the bike did very well in the mountains and he was happy, with that.

PM sent.
Ron

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 26, 2016, 07:26:40 AM
The trip was right at 1200 miles. The bike used 1.5 qts of oil on the trip .

Overall that was the only issue it ran great got good MPG

3 pints of oil in 1200 miles is a pint every 400 or an ounce every 25 miles.

By any measure that is a "worn out and needs an immediate total rebuild" sort of consumption for any motorcycle engine

Quote from: jbexeter on September 26, 2016, 09:32:31 AM

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 26, 2016, 07:26:40 AM
The trip was right at 1200 miles. The bike used 1.5 qts of oil on the trip .

Overall that was the only issue it ran great got good MPG

3 pints of oil in 1200 miles is a pint every 400 or an ounce every 25 miles.

By any measure that is a "worn out and needs an immediate total rebuild" sort of consumption for any motorcycle engine

More like a repair. In this case not worn out but a defective component(s).
Ron

Based on what I recall reading a letter that was sent to some one on here that was from the Moco. As they where dealing with a 1 qt to 1000 oil usage .. In a nutshell no problem found normal usage.    I do not disagree and I am sure that it will get worked out. My 124 used less than 2 dots of oil on the trip. Sitting in stop and go traffic for 20-3- minutes several times    It was no fun and my bike was cooking hot.

But is there anything in writing that covers what normal usage is for a harley??

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 26, 2016, 11:06:50 AM

But is there anything in writing that covers what normal usage is for a harley??

I believe the weasel word is "excessive"...

Euro 6 emission limits (petrol):

    CO - 1.0 g/km
    HC - 0.10 g/km
    NOx - 0.06 g/km
    PM - 0.005 g/km (Direct Injection only)
    PM - 6.0x10 ^11/km (Direct Injection only)

Euro 6 emission limits (diesel):

    CO - 0.50 g/km
    HC+ NOx - 0.17 g/km
    NOx - 0.08 g/km
    PM - 0.005 g/km
    PM - 6.0x10 ^11/km

oil consumption at that level on a motorcycle is pretty much a guaranteed emissions fail.

I had an '04 883 Sportster that used a quart of oil every 900 miles (brand new bike).  The dealer called Harley to get it repaired under warranty.  Harley said that a quart every 900 miles was within normal limits.  It took months of calling by both the dealer and myself before Harley finally relented and agreed to pay for the repair, two weeks before my warranty was to expire!

Good on you 
They tried something like that on me when my Streetbob blew up
Wanted the dealer to reuse my heads and crank sensor  HAAAAA

Hmmmm. Sounds just like the 05 valve seals issue.

Quote from: Bike31 on September 25, 2016, 11:29:31 AM
Has there been any correlation between S/N, production date, and issues?

Does H-D start with "600001" for the last part of the VIN each model year?

(My SG is "601078".)

Quote from: jbexeter on September 26, 2016, 12:25:55 PM

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on September 26, 2016, 11:06:50 AM

But is there anything in writing that covers what normal usage is for a harley??

I believe the weasel word is "excessive"...

Euro 6 emission limits (petrol):

    CO - 1.0 g/km
    HC - 0.10 g/km
    NOx - 0.06 g/km
    PM - 0.005 g/km (Direct Injection only)
    PM - 6.0x10 ^11/km (Direct Injection only)

Euro 6 emission limits (diesel):

    CO - 0.50 g/km
    HC+ NOx - 0.17 g/km
    NOx - 0.08 g/km
    PM - 0.005 g/km
    PM - 6.0x10 ^11/km

oil consumption at that level on a motorcycle is pretty much a guaranteed emissions fail.

Back in the late 90's early 2000's VW had serious oil consumption problems on diesels to the point new vehicles had stickers telling you to check oil level every time you put fuel in it.

HOG Magazine, volume 37, 2016, page 35

"27 ROLL TEST  Quality inspection is a constant process at York, but our Milwaukee-Eight powered Street Glide Special must pass a final exam - the roll test.  After plugging in a fuel line and electrical harness, the technician flashed the ECM, starts the bike, and follows a standardized sequence:  a 1.5 mile "ride" on rollers, reaching highway speeds and testing the bike's functions, including shifting, braking, lights, and even cruise control."

Quote from: Xyzzy on September 26, 2016, 07:47:32 PM

Quote from: Bike31 on September 25, 2016, 11:29:31 AM
Has there been any correlation between S/N, production date, and issues?

Does H-D start with "600001" for the last part of the VIN each model year?

(My SG is "601078".)

Good question that I don't know the answer to. Might be one for the sales folks here that deal with this daily.

Quote from: les on September 27, 2016, 03:08:48 PM
HOG Magazine, volume 37, 2016, page 35

"27 ROLL TEST  Quality inspection is a constant process at York, but our Milwaukee-Eight powered Street Glide Special must pass a final exam - the roll test.  After plugging in a fuel line and electrical harness, the technician flashed the ECM, starts the bike, and follows a standardized sequence:  a 1.5 mile "ride" on rollers, reaching highway speeds and testing the bike's functions, including shifting, braking, lights, and even cruise control."

In 2016 things being what they are, I suspect they also connect well fitting extraction hoses to the exhaust pipes before starting the engine, so the "technician" wouldn't see anything even if it was rolling coal cummins style....

Quote from: jbexeter on September 27, 2016, 04:51:18 PM

Quote from: les on September 27, 2016, 03:08:48 PM
HOG Magazine, volume 37, 2016, page 35

"27 ROLL TEST  Quality inspection is a constant process at York, but our Milwaukee-Eight powered Street Glide Special must pass a final exam - the roll test.  After plugging in a fuel line and electrical harness, the technician flashed the ECM, starts the bike, and follows a standardized sequence:  a 1.5 mile "ride" on rollers, reaching highway speeds and testing the bike's functions, including shifting, braking, lights, and even cruise control."

In 2016 things being what they are, I suspect they also connect well fitting extraction hoses to the exhaust pipes before starting the engine, so the "technician" wouldn't see anything even if it was rolling coal cummins style....

Exactly.  What I saw years ago apparently is still going on at York. Above is material evidence of that.


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