HarleyTechTalk

Whats the opinion and advice folks? Especially if looking to increase cubes in the equation.

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What are your goals for Tq/hp?
Or how much $ are you willing to spend?

The question can be viewed from both directions.

that's a pretty vague, open-ended and subjective question 

in my mind the '14 and newer bikes really just need a good exhaust system and a good dyno tune - that to me is the best bang for buck or add another $150-$450 and add a SE air cleaner (although the stock HO unit works decent) and can still all be done for under two grand

after that, open your wallet, especially if you're talking adding cubic inches

Thinking the upgrade would need to be without removing the motor or machining the cases. Anything over 110hp and 115tq would be perfect.

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Quote from: Ozbernie on January 12, 2017, 01:02:29 AM
Thinking the upgrade would need to be without removing the motor or machining the cases. Anything over 110hp and 115tq would be perfect.

pretty easy - get a Harley 110 drop in kit with SE259 cams and CNC heads

it'll take a capable tuner to get the 110 hp but super attainable

this will require the typical Stage 1 mods (exhaust system and high flow air cleaner) to make it all come together

Quote from: sfmichael on January 12, 2017, 01:17:06 AM

Quote from: Ozbernie on January 12, 2017, 01:02:29 AM
Thinking the upgrade would need to be without removing the motor or machining the cases. Anything over 110hp and 115tq would be perfect.

pretty easy - get a Harley 110 drop in kit with SE259 cams and CNC heads

it'll take a capable tuner to get the 110 hp but super attainable

this will require the typical Stage 1 mods (exhaust system and high flow air cleaner) to make it all come together

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,88390.msg1007768.html#msg1007768

Quote from: Ozbernie on January 12, 2017, 01:02:29 AM
Thinking the upgrade would need to be without removing the motor or machining the cases. Anything over 110hp and 115tq would be perfect.

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If we are talking Power divided by dollars spent this goal would not require the $1000.00 cylinder and piston up grade. Most good head work with a good cam will reach this with a good tune and exhaust. If the money is no problem then add the extra displacement but the budget blows up fast because you need a bigger TB and all the incidentals for the bigger build and the Hp/$ changes quickly. These are all 103's with different head work and cams.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,86073.msg972997.html#msg972997

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87954.msg1000679.html#msg1000679

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87496.msg994171.html#msg994171

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,84144.msg944457.html#msg944457

Or  keep ur stock ring seal,Set of JWP heads,his 561-6 Cam, 030HG.Good exhaust, definitely a good tune. net u 115/115.


86

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,95145.0.html

86

It was a 30T pulley for me, as far as bang for the buck.

  As stated by Mr 86

If you do not have a oil leakage or leakdown/blowby issue

Why tear a perfectly good engine down ?

Good heads,cam,throttle body,exhaust and tune

Who is JWP? 

The pimp that posted just before you.

$140 ac get fuel moto or zippers and it still looks stock to 99% people.
$200 powervision license/ canned tune. This will also adjust the gear ratios for cruise to work normally. I am sure it would probably help to get it dyno'd but I haven't had time. I auto tuned multiple times and lost a consistent 1-2 bike lengths but it did run a little smoother.
$785  (list) Dragos  drago 2
$140 Rivera game changer 32 tooth.
Everything installed in the garage in about 3-5 hours, depending on knowledge and tools.

This works on the street.
6th gear roll on is very good and will equal and beat bikes with heads and cams to 100 which is good for me.
All of which above you will need except the gear if you do heads and/or cams anyway and the gear is the biggest difference.

OP still hasn't given any budget . .. Or stated if the bike is perfectly stock or has a Stage 1 or?

But if wanting to increase CI then pick up a set of pistons ($250) and have your cylinders bored. ($100)
Cam it ($250) do slipons ($250) and a tuner ($250) Gaskets/Adj-Pushrods/Lifters ($350) a tune
2K

I just did an upgrade to my Super Glide.  See recent thread.

I'd say that you need to install a free-flowing air cleaner and maybe an exhaust (or at least open your stock items).  I would go further and say a new set of cams will give you a big bang for the bucks. As I indicate, I really like the 204 cams in my 103.

Everybody says you need "a tune."  You certainly need to do something about fueling but dropping up to $1000 for a fuel module and dyno tune is not your only option.

I spent $300 on a Vance and Hines FP3, downloaded their specified map and then Auto-Tuned it for a while. I doubt that I am besting a dyno tune but the thing runs like a scalded dog with no glitches.  It's fine for me.  My upgrades were minimal in cost but yielded dramatic results.

Oh, by the way, you may need to do something about your clutch afterwards. 

The added oomph from my bike made the stock clutch slip.  A common solution is to install a stronger clutch spring but I didn't want to lose the light lever pull of my stock clutch. I installed an Alto Carbonite extra-plate clutch, about $120, and kept my stock spring.  All good now. The clutch has a nice take-up and feel too. Not grabby at all.  Be sure to soak plates in primary lube (I used Mobil 1 ATF) before installing.

.

Quote from: leafman60 on January 16, 2017, 03:41:03 AM
I just did an upgrade to my Super Glide.  See recent thread.

I'd say that you need to install a free-flowing air cleaner and maybe an exhaust (or at least open your stock items).  I would go further and say a new set of cams will give you a big bang for the bucks. As I indicate, I really like the 204 cams in my 103.

Everybody says you need "a tune."  You certainly need to do something about fueling but dropping up to $1000 for a fuel module and dyno tune is not your only option.

I spent $300 on a Vance and Hines FP3, downloaded their specified map and then Auto-Tuned it for a while. I doubt that I am besting a dyno tune but the thing runs like a scalded dog with no glitches.  It's fine for me.  My upgrades were minimal in cost but yielded dramatic results.

Oh, by the way, you may need to do something about your clutch afterwards. 

The added oomph from my bike made the stock clutch slip.  A common solution is to install a stronger clutch spring but I didn't want to lose the light lever pull of my stock clutch. I installed an Alto Carbonite extra-plate clutch, about $120, and kept my stock spring.  All good now. The clutch has a nice take-up and feel too. Not grabby at all.  Be sure to soak plates in primary lube (I used Mobil 1 ATF) before installing.

.

FP3 isn't really a tuner it is a piggyback fuel adjuster doesn't adjust the timing. Not much more$$$ for a real tuner, with REAL auto tune abilities.  I personally had no luck with ATF in my 06 Dyna the compensator hated it and it made clutch adjustment difficult to adjust for no clunk, primary is much happier with primary fluid ( for me anyhow).  Very easy to spend the cash and your best bang for your $$$ is opinion with out some testing to prove the theory.  Bob

 A gear change,cams,pipe and AC and a tune arent going to make up for fun to ride with an additional 15-18 horsepower

I do agree on the alto carbonite clutch....for the inbetween builds it works well even with a stock spring

Quote from: FXDBI on January 16, 2017, 07:32:26 AM

Quote from: leafman60 on January 16, 2017, 03:41:03 AM
I just did an upgrade to my Super Glide.  See recent thread.

I'd say that you need to install a free-flowing air cleaner and maybe an exhaust (or at least open your stock items).  I would go further and say a new set of cams will give you a big bang for the bucks. As I indicate, I really like the 204 cams in my 103.

Everybody says you need "a tune."  You certainly need to do something about fueling but dropping up to $1000 for a fuel module and dyno tune is not your only option.

I spent $300 on a Vance and Hines FP3, downloaded their specified map and then Auto-Tuned it for a while. I doubt that I am besting a dyno tune but the thing runs like a scalded dog with no glitches.  It's fine for me.  My upgrades were minimal in cost but yielded dramatic results.

Oh, by the way, you may need to do something about your clutch afterwards. 

The added oomph from my bike made the stock clutch slip.  A common solution is to install a stronger clutch spring but I didn't want to lose the light lever pull of my stock clutch. I installed an Alto Carbonite extra-plate clutch, about $120, and kept my stock spring.  All good now. The clutch has a nice take-up and feel too. Not grabby at all.  Be sure to soak plates in primary lube (I used Mobil 1 ATF) before installing.

.

FP3 isn't really a tuner it is a piggyback fuel adjuster doesn't adjust the timing. Not much more$$$ for a real tuner, with REAL auto tune abilities.  I personally had no luck with ATF in my 06 Dyna the compensator hated it and it made clutch adjustment difficult to adjust for no clunk, primary is much happier with primary fluid ( for me anyhow).  Very easy to spend the cash and your best bang for your $$$ is opinion with out some testing to prove the theory.  Bob

The FP3 has worked very well for me and several friends.  For $300 with no expensive dyno work, I think it's a good buy.

Quote from: leafman60 on January 16, 2017, 07:49:51 PM
The FP3 has worked very well for me and several friends.  For $300 with no expensive dyno work, I think it's a good buy.

I believe the point is you are probably leaving a bunch of HP and torque untapped without a proper dyno tune. I find it surprising that someone will spend a bunch of cash on cams AC and pipes, then do half a tune.

It would be interesting to do a proper tune on a bike with the FP3 and see if the customer can tell if there is a noticeable difference.

Quote from: PoorUB on January 16, 2017, 08:03:44 PM

Quote from: leafman60 on January 16, 2017, 07:49:51 PM
The FP3 has worked very well for me and several friends.  For $300 with no expensive dyno work, I think it's a good buy.

I believe the point is you are probably leaving a bunch of HP and torque untapped without a proper dyno tune. I find it surprising that someone will spend a bunch of cash on cams AC and pipes, then do half a tune.

I never quite understood that either.

Quote from: Hossamania on January 16, 2017, 08:12:57 PM
It would be interesting to do a proper tune on a bike with the FP3 and see if the customer can tell if there is a noticeable difference.

Quote from: PoorUB on January 16, 2017, 08:03:44 PM

Quote from: leafman60 on January 16, 2017, 07:49:51 PM
The FP3 has worked very well for me and several friends.  For $300 with no expensive dyno work, I think it's a good buy.

I believe the point is you are probably leaving a bunch of HP and torque untapped without a proper dyno tune. I find it surprising that someone will spend a bunch of cash on cams AC and pipes, then do half a tune.

I never quite understood that either.

Need a flash tuner to do a real tune not a piggy back.  Bob

Just to clarify the terms here, the FP3 flash tunes the stock ECU and then you remove the module from the bike.  It's not like the older Power Commanders that stayed hooked up and piggy-back the stock system.

I do not argue that a properly-done dyno tune should yield better results across the RPM band of the engine.  My point is that the FP3, for literally a fraction- maybe 1/3- the cost, ain't no slouch. For an engine upgrade like mine where I did not invest thousands of dollars (in keeping with the topic of this thread), the FP3 is an economical and effective improvement.

I would love to see a test mule with stock mapping get an FP3 and be Auto-Tuned (the FP3 procedure for refining the mapping while you ride) for haulin-ass riding and then put on a dyno for a HP check. Then, take the same bike and do a dyno tune and see how much more can be squeezed out. I highly doubt you'll get twice the HP from a dyno tune.

Another thing when talking about upgrades- what about the suspension?  All the horsepower in the world does no good if you can't put it to use because you are dragging parts or wobbling all over the road.

Suspension upgrades should also be on the list for consideration with any upgrade.

Don't even get me started on suspension. I'm sick and tired of hearing my wife say "Ouch" when we hit any half assed bump in the road. And I know that a new set of shocks that are not top of the line will probably be disappointing, so there's another $1000.
We rode a Beemer with electronically adjustable suspension for 10 days - beautiful!