HarleyTechTalk

I'm replacing all the cables and brake lines on my 03 RK, ordered through California Phil, so now the voices are telling me that maybe putting in a new Baker heavy duty throwout bearing would be a great idea.

Only issue is that I'm using Mueller ramps and if I remember correctly the inner ramp has to be machined for the Baker bearing.

So what are the opinions here? The Bike has over 60K on it and if I go that way what are the measurements for machining the inner ramp?

Or do I just put a new stock bearing in since I got 60k out of the original and it has no problems, that I'm aware of.

Thanks.  Mike

You will get varying opinion on this, but all I have ever used is the OEM.

There is a fairly recent thread here where Ohio had to machine the Muller arm for the Baker brg.. You may want to read it.

Mike, since the Muller has such a tight free play adjustment, and in the cases where you're using a heavy clutch spring, the larger Baker throw out bearing can be helpful to absorb any unwanted bearing engagement. You do have to machine the recess for the bearing race to be a larger diameter. The consensus of the new diameter seems to be 0.937".

DO NOT LET THEM MAKE THE RECESS DEEPER.   


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=101950.msg1204395#msg1204395

Quote from: Durwood on March 28, 2018, 09:59:20 AM
You will get varying opinion on this, but all I have ever used is the OEM.

I've seen two OEM needle bearings completely disintegrate.  It's like it vanishes but you find little bits of bearing in the bottom of the clutch release cover.  I use the Baker in my own bike.

  Mike...I've been told that if you tell Baker that you are currently running the Mueller ramps when your ordering their HD throw out bearing that if you ask them...they will machine the Mueller for you and send it back along with their new HD bearing.
  It's just an option if you don't know anyone close by that can machine the ramp for you.

Thanks Brian I'll give them a call on Monday, we have a shop here in town but who better to do the mod than Baker themselves?

I just know the minute I remove the damn thing we'll hit full blown Spring and sun,lol.

Mike

Any good machine shop can do it with a 0.937" end mill. The key to it is not to make the recess any deeper than it is. If they went a few thousands deeper just to keep a clean flat surface for the bearing race, that's fine. What happened to mine was I dropped off two HD and one Muller ramp, and the guy that did the work ignored my drawing and instructions, and made the recess about 0.030" deeper, as deep as the HD ramps, so my Muller is a paper weight for my desk now.

If Baker will do it reasonably, they know exactly what to do, pretty much zero risk having them do it.

It's why I have thousands of dollars in tools that I've used once, I hate others learning at my expense.

  Brian...can you have your Mueller ramp recess area welded up some to build that area up...then have it machined again to the proper depth? You would need to probably run a drill bit thru the center hole to clean any weld extending into to the hole...it might just save it from being a paper weight. 

QuoteAny good machine shop can do it with a 0.937" end mill.

I do it on my home hobby lathe using a carbide tipped boring bar, slow and steady as the ramp material is hard.

Quote from: No Cents on March 30, 2018, 05:37:41 PM
  Brian...can you have your Mueller ramp recess area welded up some to build that area up...then have it machined again to the proper depth? You would need to probably run a drill bit thru the center hole to clean any weld extending into to the hole...it might just save it from being a paper weight. 

Ray it can probably be done. But by the time I pay someone to make a pin hole free weld up, then machine it back. I'll have as much or more in it than a new one. Lesson learned, and that's why I bought a mini lathe, to handle smaller jobs myself going forward.

I actually remeasured the ramp today, I broke one of my rules when I bought the pin point micrometer used, I didn't check the accuracy. I checked it today, it was off 0.006", so I adjusted it to be accurate. I see now the the material left is about 0.005". Welding it may distort the ramp ball divots, and cause other issues. It's best not trying to use it.


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Quote from: FSG on March 30, 2018, 05:52:07 PM

QuoteAny good machine shop can do it with a 0.937" end mill.

I do it on my home hobby lathe using a carbide tipped boring bar, slow and steady as the ramp material is hard.

I'll be doing the next one myself. I have the lathe all setup. I need to get other things done before that is done.

  ...it was just a thought.
Beings it's a paper weight I figured it would be worth the try.
   I would think someone like John Sachs or Larry could weld that area back up and machine it for you. It might be worth asking one of them if they think it could be done. 

I'm sure someone can do it. But it's not worth paying to have it done. I would expect someone to charge me a couple hours labor, I can buy one for that. I'll hang on to it, and it may have some use one day.

Gave Baker a call today, no answer so I sent an E-mail hopefully they get back to me.

Then I spent an hour and a half looking at Mini Lathes.

You guys suck. lol

Mike

Quote from: mrmike on April 02, 2018, 03:57:31 PM
Gave Baker a call today, no answer so I sent an E-mail hopefully they get back to me.

Then I spent an hour and a half looking at Mini Lathes.

You guys suck. lol

Mike

I was in a similar boat, and I thought, what would FSG do?   

Quote from: mrmike on April 02, 2018, 03:57:31 PM
Gave Baker a call today, no answer so I sent an E-mail hopefully they get back to me.

Then I spent an hour and a half looking at Mini Lathes.

You guys suck. lol

Mike

Mike if you do get serious about a mini lathe, spend some time here in the newby section. I great bunch of guys that know a lot.

Also youtube mini lathe.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/

Got a response from Baker, to their knowledge they've never done one before but will take a look at mine if I send it to them, part of me wants to just take it to the local Company and have them do it but then I remember what happened to Brian so I think I'll just send it to Baker and take the extra time.

If I had a lathe I wouldn't hesitate to take Brian's specs and do it myself, hell I've even thought that the proper sized end mill in my drill press might even get the job done, lol

Mike

  Mike...my Mueller was done by fellow member Just Nick. He used an end mill bit on mine.
As far as the response from Baker goes...I guess it's who your talking to, to what answer you get. I've noticed that with them. I believe it was klammer76 (I could be wrong on the person) that told me that Baker did his Mueller ramp for him. He posted it on the forum here in a different thread.
  If you have a drill press and you can get the right size end mill bit you could do it yourself. The ramps are hard...so you would just need to take your time when opening it up.

Oh yeah I have the drill press all right and if I had no other way I would go for it but I'll send it to Baker and let them set it up nicey nice for me.

Weather around here still sucks and my new cables and lines just came in from California Phil so I'll just pull it apart send the inner ramp out and play with the rest.

Last summer I rescued a 1981 Yamaha Seca with 20,000 miles and a lifetime sitting in a garage so I pulled all 4 carbs apart and rebuilt them (bought a sonic cleaner,lol) so I can play on that if the weather gets better and the RK isn't on the road yet.

A smart man would have started this 2 months ago.

Fortunately I'm not that guy.

Mike

I just had the release end off my tranny because I installed a Baker 7 speed and didn't know if I had used their bearing when doing so.  I was having hell trying to adjust the clutch using the Muller ramps but found I still had the stock bearing in place.  I'm using the SE race clutch which makes my knuckles crack pulling in the clutch so was really wanting the Muller release to work.  Got the clutch adjusted right thanks to No Cents and the motor is a 124 making 128/132 and has a total of 45xxx miles.  I'm thinking the stock release bearing is pretty adequate

Ok here's the followup,

I ended up getting a local shop to machine the ramp, No Cents your number was on the money, thank you. I didn't use Baker only because they said though they could do it the shop was slammed with work so I figured it would be some time for my little part to get done, the local shop did it in 2 days.

Got it all buttoned up with FSG's Shovel spring installed as well, I'm still playing with adjustment and I think I'll be tightening another 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the release rod, I'm just not getting the clearance needed yet.

Cable's tight but I think the added shovel spring is what's doing that.

Also the Baker directions said to remove the oil slinger due to the tabs interfering with the larger thrust washer.

I opted to widen the bends on the tabs on the slinger using the thrust washer and a screwdriver as a gauge to keep them all equal, easy.

Here's a pic of the machined ramp with the old bearing and thrust washers and the new bearing setup.

Mike

Add, While I had the exhaust dropped I figured I'd have a look at the cam chest and the tensioners, expect another thread,lol.

Quote from: No Cents on April 04, 2018, 09:55:15 AM
  Mike...my Mueller was done by fellow member Just Nick. He used an end mill bit on mine.
As far as the response from Baker goes...I guess it's who your talking to, to what answer you get. I've noticed that with them. I believe it was klammer76 (I could be wrong on the person) that told me that Baker did his Mueller ramp for him. He posted it on the forum here in a different thread.
  If you have a drill press and you can get the right size end mill bit you could do it yourself. The ramps are hard...so you would just need to take your time when opening it up.

HTT Member, Billy machined mine.

Quote from: mrmike on April 15, 2018, 11:44:21 AM
Ok here's the followup,

I ended up getting a local shop to machine the ramp, No Cents your number was on the money, thank you. I didn't use Baker only because they said though they could do it the shop was slammed with work so I figured it would be some time for my little part to get done, the local shop did it in 2 days.

Got it all buttoned up with FSG's Shovel spring installed as well, I'm still playing with adjustment and I think I'll be tightening another 1/4 to 1/2 turn on the release rod, I'm just not getting the clearance needed yet.

Cable's tight but I think the added shovel spring is what's doing that.

Also the Baker directions said to remove the oil slinger due to the tabs interfering with the larger thrust washer.

I opted to widen the bends on the tabs on the slinger using the thrust washer and a screwdriver as a gauge to keep them all equal, easy.

Here's a pic of the machined ramp with the old bearing and thrust washers and the new bearing setup.

Mike

Add, While I had the exhaust dropped I figured I'd have a look at the cam chest and the tensioners, expect another thread,lol.

Mike,

When running the Baker bearing in my 5 speed (I have a SE 6 speed now) I also just bent the fingers in the slinger out slightly. Ran it for years (Baker bearing and slinger) no problems. I believe FSG also runs a slinger. Going to see if the slinger will fit in my SE 6 speed when I'm in there shortly to install the shovelhead spring.

   I'm sorry klammer76. For some reason your name came to mind.    I can't remember who it was that stated Baker would machine the Mueller ramp for you if you ordered their heavy duty throw out bearing. It was posted some where on this forum in a thread.
  It's hell getting old.   

   Now that you mentioned it...I do remember you telling me that Billy did your ramp for you.