HarleyTechTalk

first of all..this is a different site than hdforums. i love both but ive noticed the tech on this forum is more in depth.
im looking for sugesstions for a budget ~$1500-2000 to spend sans dyno tune. I will be doing my own install as I did the cam install but I am in no way and experienced HD mechanic. I have years of auto mechanic experience (3523 USMC diesel mechanic 1978-1982 ) and auto backyard mechanical background since 14.
I like to tinker and only have ~1500 miles on the 222 cam install so really looking to tinker further.
looking for 105/120 tq when its all said and done. been reading up on 107 and 110 kits and head work from FM, S&S and Hillside. also saw where head work on the 103 yields nice gains.
2012 flhx
presently running:
AN big sucker, decatted head pipe, cfr exhaust, tw 222, PV FM base tune
I have a ton of questions but will start with the this:
reliability:
my 103 jugs and pistons with headwork and with my present 222 cams ..feasible or will compression be to high and cause pinging. im open to a cam swap if that can get me there.is this the best reliability option between the 107/110 kit with headwork. I know thetr are no free lunches but crank work is not in the budget at this time.
really like the dyno sheets from the 107 and 110 with head work but not sure of reliability. probably about the same with my 103.
all comments and/or please suggestions will be appreciated.
sorry for the long post but wanted to provide as much info as possible to receive the help im soliciting.
thanks

Ok If you want to go to the dyno section and look at the 103 that is posted there . I think it has the Dan Vance heads there . Really nice build

You say sans Dyno tune, does that mean you are willing to spend the money for a proper tune after spending the $2000 for the other hardware?

yes

Quote from: 1workinman on April 03, 2018, 06:36:47 PM
Ok If you want to go to the dyno section and look at the 103 that is posted there . I think it has the Dan Vance heads there . Really nice build

will do

Quote from: 901SG on April 03, 2018, 06:51:12 PM
yes

Sweet. A lot of great info will be had here for you to go forward with a good build. I'm jealous. Good luck!

Check out the 110 drop on kits in the dyno section GMR been doin a quite a few with just 110 kit cams ,pipe and tune and they exceed your goal great power with stock heads !

Quote from: Clayton24 on April 03, 2018, 07:03:18 PM
Check out the 110 drop on kits in the dyno section GMR been doin a quite a few with just 110 kit cams ,pipe and tune and they exceed your goal great power with stock heads !

Agree, a good amount of torque bang for the buck.   

It's good to see you are willing to have the bike tuned by a competent professional.
Here on HTT, you'll be able to find and see the benefits of a comprehensive tune achieving a custom map for your build vs. a canned map or street tune...let alone a "break-in" map.

Find a tuner guy that is properly equipped and experienced in heat cycling/break-in on the Dyno while simultaneously beginning the initial stages of the tuning process.
Trailer it to him to gain peace of mind and then enjoy the rewards of your build.

Using a TTS or PV with adequate access to the ECM should definitely be considered.
The tune phase of your build plan is not the place to make compromises.

If you had a good headpipe and mufflers your goal would be a breeze

Suggest changing those as a start

You can get where you want to be with stock pistons

Make sure the top end is sound

Isn't it sad that changing to a good exhaust blows half the budget? More than half if trying to stick to $1500 total hardware, plus a tune. It adds up fast.

I've seen some really impressive torque curves with decatted head pipes. But I'd go ahead and turn your CFR's into lamp shades. No matter how solid the tune is and/or how great the rest of the parts are, those are going to hinder the build.

As far as reliability and compression, not an expert on all that (yet, haha). But I know that if built right with a solid combo of parts and the tune is good, a performance build even at higher compression can be more reliable than a stock motor (though sometimes that doesn't take much).

Best of luck on your quest and good call heading to this forum. Easily the best site on the web for performance related questions and topics.

Tune is great , making tq well stock heads can do that very well .. I do not have a 103 that was handy to show a CFR but I do have a 110 that a local shop built using our 577 cam  head pipe was V&H pwr dual.  We tuned it  customer picked it up and came back in maybe 30 minutes . Did  not like the lack of low end power .    Bike was low on CCP from what others I had checked, smelled like oil while running    I was just the tuner . Tune what they give you .

Here is the lay over with a set of D&D slip on test mufflers I had .  You can see how poorly the mufflers can be

2011 FLHT CVO 110 gmr 577  CFR vs DD slip ons ( engine is misting oil heavily ) by GMR Performance, on Flickr

Economical fix?- find someone to swap the CFRs for a set of Crusher Mellows, and then take the bike and PV to Brandon, Steve, Darren, etc.

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on April 04, 2018, 06:51:43 AM
Tune is great , making tq well stock heads can do that very well .. I do not have a 103 that was handy to show a CFR but I do have a 110 that a local shop built using our 577 cam  head pipe was V&H pwr dual.  We tuned it  customer picked it up and came back in maybe 30 minutes . Did  not like the lack of low end power .    Bike was low on CCP from what others I had checked, smelled like oil while running    I was just the tuner . Tune what they give you .

Here is the lay over with a set of D&D slip on test mufflers I had .  You can see how poorly the mufflers can be

2011 FLHT CVO 110 gmr 577  CFR vs DD slip ons ( engine is misting oil heavily ) by GMR Performance, on Flickr

thanks for the graph.
looks like I got some decisions to make.
I love the CFR sound and with the way my set up is now I have not noticed a loss of torque with the tw222. hence, I was trying to see if there was anything I could do to my present set up like headwork and a little higher compression and/or a cam change would net a higher torque gain.

I suggest you haven't noticed a loss of torque because you haven't tried something better (as evident in the graph).  As far as the sound goes, you'll learn to appreciate a pipe muffler that outperforms the CFR by a large margin. The 30% increase in the graph is huge with just an exhaust choice. It'll probably sound close anyway.

Quote from: rigidthumper on April 04, 2018, 09:51:13 AM
Economical fix?- find someone to swap the CFRs for a set of Crusher Mellows, and then take the bike and PV to Brandon, Steve, Darren, etc.

Agreed.
You will be surprised with what just the right mufflers and an expert tune will do to meet your left side power goals.

Quote from: kd on April 04, 2018, 10:24:57 AM
I suggest you haven't noticed a loss of torque because you haven't tried something better (as evident in the graph).  As far as the sound goes, you'll learn to appreciate a pipe muffler that outperforms the CFR by a large margin. The 30% increase in the graph is huge with just an exhaust choice. It'll probably sound close anyway.

agreed...that's nothing to sneeze at

Crusher mellows sound great.  I have Khrome Werks on a build as well that sound fantastic. 

Mild head work with major focus on the valve job.
Skim cut the chambers to 82-83 CC.
Zero deck the cylinders for the stock pistons.
Free flowing head pipe. Mellows.
I prefer to let the head porter pick the cam.

This will yield 105-110 HP and 110-120 torque if professionally tuned.

Just my experience and opinion.

A muffler that works much better than the CFR is the SVT bone shaker . Its loud looks like a CFR . I will say that the core is larger than I like . But is a much better muffler for the guys that have to have that look and sound .

Quote from: mike jesse on April 04, 2018, 01:13:30 PM
Mild head work with major focus on the valve job.
Skim cut the chambers to 82-83 CC.
Zero deck the cylinders for the stock pistons.
Free flowing head pipe. Mellows.
I prefer to let the head porter pick the cam.

This will yield 105-110 HP and 110-120 torque if professionally tuned.

Just my experience and opinion.

This recipe can produce a great running bike.....and has

Quote from: TorQuePimp on April 04, 2018, 02:03:55 PM

Quote from: mike jesse on April 04, 2018, 01:13:30 PM
Mild head work with major focus on the valve job.
Skim cut the chambers to 82-83 CC.
Zero deck the cylinders for the stock pistons.
Free flowing head pipe. Mellows.
I prefer to let the head porter pick the cam.

This will yield 105-110 HP and 110-120 torque if professionally tuned.

Just my experience and opinion.

This recipe can produce a great running bike.....and has

Yes Sir!

Great advice here already, just a little more evidence if you are not already convinced on the 103 with valve seat work or about the mufflers.
The blue run 003 is with the CFR mufflers and the other two runs are SE mufflers with modified baffle.
The guy had the SEs on the bike before the engine work and bought the CFRs to install with the motor work and Khromewerks head pipe. After the motor work, pipe change and tune he still wanted the bottom end better so it was re-tuned with his old SE slip-ons for the final runs 030 and 031.



Here is the original thread and engine specs.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=63670.msg681040#msg681040

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on April 04, 2018, 06:51:43 AM
Tune is great , making tq well stock heads can do that very well .. I do not have a 103 that was handy to show a CFR but I do have a 110 that a local shop built using our 577 cam  head pipe was V&H pwr dual.  We tuned it  customer picked it up and came back in maybe 30 minutes . Did  not like the lack of low end power .    Bike was low on CCP from what others I had checked, smelled like oil while running    I was just the tuner . Tune what they give you .

Here is the lay over with a set of D&D slip on test mufflers I had .  You can see how poorly the mufflers can be

2011 FLHT CVO 110 gmr 577  CFR vs DD slip ons ( engine is misting oil heavily ) by GMR Performance, on Flickr

That chart looks like my bike feels. I have the Power Duals & Twin Slash rounds.

I tried to buy the Ebay Mellows but, say it with me now..... NO SALES TO CALIFORNIA