HarleyTechTalk

Putting a set of (used) polished wheels on my 05 fatboy & after removing the seals to clean & inspect the timkens I find a bunch of spacer washers. After looking online I see that somewhere in the evo days this was done to correct endplay. Showing as .002,.004 & .008" as being used. The last ones that I had, many years ago, we just corrected the spacer. Well not being a fan of a bunch of parts being used when one will do the trick, I built the spacers. Not being a machinist, but do have a lathe & a mill, I got the front one at zero end play with the axle jig, torqued to 60 ft. lbs while the wheel is spinning & continues to spin at 60 ft.lbs. when I back off the torgue to 45 ft.lbs I can get .0015" endplay. I was shooting for .002" at 60 ft.lbs. This was all done with dry, cleaned bearings & race.
Being a believer that a little end play is needed for the lube & for expansion I think I will run the front axle at 45 lbs torque for this season & just keep an eye on things.
This is my personal bike & no one else rides it or rides with me.
I'd like to hear some feedback from others much smarter than me.   

I shoot for .004" Bill....

The shims were introduced back in 82. .000 -.004 is to tight. Factory manual called for .004" - .018" I used to set them up .010" minimum. Most guys back then didn't own a torque wrench and they tightened that axle nut till it wouldn't move or had there Grandma tighten it 

I had a 90 FLHS for 26 years and set the bearings closer to 0.002".  When I left them looser, I would get water intrusion, which would rust the bearings in short order.

Best,

Jason

Quote from: tmwmoose on June 20, 2018, 01:16:46 PM
The shims were introduced back in 82. .000 -.004 is to tight. Factory manual called for .004" - .018" I used to set them up .010" minimum. Most guys back then didn't own a torque wrench and they tightened that axle nut till it wouldn't move or had there Grandma tighten it 

   0.010" to 0.012" was always a sweet spot.   

Why not just turn .010 off the center spacer and see if that gets you to .010 end play at the required torque setting of 60 ft lbs?

Quote from: klammer76 on June 20, 2018, 05:11:33 PM
Why not just turn .010 off the center spacer and see if that gets you to .010 end play at the required torque setting of 60 ft lbs?

He needs to add to the length of the spacer. Just toss a .005" shim in it and call it good.

Quote from: klammer76 on June 20, 2018, 05:11:33 PM
Why not just turn .010 off the center spacer and see if that gets you to .010 end play at the required torque setting of 60 ft lbs?

I'm tight alteady with backing off the torque, so what is trimmimg another .010" going to do?  

Quote from: PoorUB on June 20, 2018, 05:31:38 PM

Quote from: klammer76 on June 20, 2018, 05:11:33 PM
Why not just turn .010 off the center spacer and see if that gets you to .010 end play at the required torque setting of 60 ft lbs?

He needs to add to the length of the spacer. Just toss a .005" shim in it and call it good.

Yup.... except the "first" shim to go against the timken, from factory, has a raised section the same size as as the inner race of the timken so as not to rub on the cage & is about 1/8". I could cut the inner spacer to accomodated that. 
I like to experiment & do some things outside of the norm..... think I will run it with .0015" clearance & 45 lbs. torque, just do some short rides & monitor for heat before taking any long rides. I've checked lots of "factory" specs & they were from .002-.018" which I think is like their crank specs for today....out to lunch!
Planning 8k km. trip soon & will report back on the results of this close clearance issue....sooner if there are issues.
Thanks for the input...it's  interesting. 

Quote from: PoorUB on June 20, 2018, 05:31:38 PM

Quote from: klammer76 on June 20, 2018, 05:11:33 PM
Why not just turn .010 off the center spacer and see if that gets you to .010 end play at the required torque setting of 60 ft lbs?

He needs to add to the length of the spacer. Just toss a .005" shim in it and call it good.

Yup, I was going the wrong way...oy vey

Quote from: koko3052 on June 20, 2018, 05:58:04 PM

Quote from: PoorUB on June 20, 2018, 05:31:38 PM

Quote from: klammer76 on June 20, 2018, 05:11:33 PM
Why not just turn .010 off the center spacer and see if that gets you to .010 end play at the required torque setting of 60 ft lbs?

He needs to add to the length of the spacer. Just toss a .005" shim in it and call it good.

Yup.... except the "first" shim to go against the timken, from factory, has a raised section the same size as as the inner race of the timken so as not to rub on the cage & is about 1/8". I could cut the inner spacer to accomodated that. 
I like to experiment & do some things outside of the norm..... think I will run it with .0015" clearance & 45 lbs. torque, just do some short rides & monitor for heat before taking any long rides. I've checked lots of "factory" specs & they were from .002-.018" which I think is like their crank specs for today....out to lunch!
Planning 8k km. trip soon & will report back on the results of this close clearance issue....sooner if there are issues.
Thanks for the input...it's  interesting. 

You could part off the spacer in half and add shims to cover the cut, plus to get some end play. I don't know if I would feel right about the lower torque. Axle might move around.

Quote from: PoorUB on June 20, 2018, 08:28:25 PM

Quote from: koko3052 on June 20, 2018, 05:58:04 PM

Quote from: PoorUB on June 20, 2018, 05:31:38 PM

Quote from: klammer76 on June 20, 2018, 05:11:33 PM
Why not just turn .010 off the center spacer and see if that gets you to .010 end play at the required torque setting of 60 ft lbs?

He needs to add to the length of the spacer. Just toss a .005" shim in it and call it good.

Yup.... except the "first" shim to go against the timken, from factory, has a raised section the same size as as the inner race of the timken so as not to rub on the cage & is about 1/8". I could cut the inner spacer to accomodated that. 
I like to experiment & do some things outside of the norm..... think I will run it with .0015" clearance & 45 lbs. torque, just do some short rides & monitor for heat before taking any long rides. I've checked lots of "factory" specs & they were from .002-.018" which I think is like their crank specs for today....out to lunch!
Planning 8k km. trip soon & will report back on the results of this close clearance issue....sooner if there are issues.
Thanks for the input...it's  interesting. 

You could part off the spacer in half and add shims to cover the cut, plus to get some end play. I don't know if I would feel right about the lower torque. Axle might move around.

A front axle can't move around....it's captured on the right side.
And you're right about cutting the spacer in the middle, but how would you "capture" the shims to put the axle thru?

The bigger question to ask may be ; Are you prepared to do this every time you replace the wheel bearings? While the spacers are standard lengths, dependent on wheels/hubs, the bearing fitment is not as precise. Hence the need for shims.

longshooter

I guess a guy could just acquire a longer spacer and machine it to give about 0.010" end play.

Quote from: Ohio HD on June 21, 2018, 03:36:50 AM
I guess a guy could just acquire a longer spacer and machine it to give about 0.010" end play.

Quote from: longshooter on June 20, 2018, 09:58:31 PM
The bigger question to ask may be ; Are you prepared to do this every time you replace the wheel bearings? While the spacers are standard lengths, dependent on wheels/hubs, the bearing fitment is not as precise. Hence the need for shims.

longshooter

You mean in about a 100K miles....sure! Timkens taken care of last forever.
I could cut another spacer fairly quickly, but I'm curious what this one will do... let you know after the first 500 mi..

Might as well come this way just in case. If it's too tight, it'll let you know pretty quick. Make it this morning though.......gone for a while (again). 

Well got the bike out the other night to check out if my timkens are mounted too tight. Only went about 60 kms (35mi.) while checking for heat a few times & there was none.
Went for a ride yesterday a little over 500km (300 mi) at 130 kmh (80mph), checked for heat a couple times going & found absolutely nothing so didn't check on the way back but checked when I got home. No warmth what so ever in the bearing area.
The conclusion to this is that while the front wheel timkens were set a little on the snug side @ .0015"@45 ft. lbs., there were no ill effects.
When it's time for a tire change I will clean the bearings & check the clearance at 55 ft. lbs..

   The aluminum wheels probably grow a little with the slab heat transfer too.

There wasn't any "slab heat" running yesterday, only about 45f coming back!
And windy as heel, really a rotten day....but I didn't get rinsed!

Thank you for the update!

Best,

Jason