HarleyTechTalk

What is the current consensus on the reliability and strength of the 110" drop-in kits?  Is there a preferred manufacturer (S&S, MoCo, Fuel Moto?, etc)?  Is their a large advantage over the 107 bore"?  From what I can gather on the boards some claim you will just see 3/3 across the rpm range when comparing the two.  However the dyno sheets that I have seen have shown bigger gains than that in similar setups (I understand there is a big variance in that statement). 

I am doing research now on a "stage 4" build now enlarging my 96" to either a 107" or 110" with headwork and cams.  It will be in a Road Glide that is a daily rider.  Looking for reliability and running cool, but of course I want it to move out....  I have seen good looking builds with cams in the 590 lift range as well as 630 lift range (that will be another topic I will need to be schooled up on...)  Thanks!

JMHO but that would be a cost/benefit question for me.  Bore and fit new pistons will run about $500 in my neck of the woods and IIRC, any of the three 110" drop in kits will run $1100-$1200 plus shipping.  So, is the gain be it 3/3 or more worth the additional cost?

I prefer boring for a perfect fit to new pistons; not too trusting of a cylinder/piston combination that may be a not so perfect fit.  I would bore and fit new pistons and cut cylinder to zero deck while at it and find another place to spend the differencee, but again, JMHO.

Thank you.  I am also looking at it, at least in part, as a cost/benefit situation as well.  So in that one part I agree, the 107 is the way to go  (unless like I said the 110 offers more than marginal benefits...) 

Another major part for me is reliability, drivability, usability (basically the whole build in the real world, not just a dyno graph).  I just don't know if it is one of those things where a "hot" 107 will equal that to a "mild" 110, and if in fact a 107 vs 110 will just simply be 3/3 based on the same build and not a 110 having a decent benefit that covers the cost difference...

 It's splitting hairs all around. Boardtracker 950 to your door 110 cylinder piston kit. Be prepared for being way in the hole from zero deck. Can't go wrong either set up as long as done right.

Quote from: shindig
Thank you.  I am also looking at it, at least in part, as a cost/benefit situation as well.  So in that one part I agree, the 107 is the way to go  (unless like I said the 110 offers more than marginal benefits...) 

Another major part for me is reliability, drivability, usability (basically the whole build in the real world, not just a dyno graph).  I just don't know if it is one of those things where a "hot" 107 will equal that to a "mild" 110, and if in fact a 107 vs 110 will just simply be 3/3 based on the same build and not a 110 having a decent benefit that covers the cost difference...

Well, seems I was a little high on the cost of the HD kit but pretty sure S&S is $1000 plus.  Sticking with bore/new piston option though, even though the HD kit does reduce the difference.  Considering that the build components will likely be similar for both setups, I am thinking the differences in TQ/HP will be marginal consistent with the 3cc increase in displacement.

The old saying, there is no replacement for displacement still applies.

If you have someone local that can properly bore/fit the 107" set up, then it is truly cost effective. If not, by the time you buy the gaskets that are included in the 110" kit, pay shipping both ways, along with the cycle time, the cost difference becomes close to a wash IMO.

Which 110" kit is better? I like and use both S&S and SE depending on what we are putting together as far as compression ratio.

The S&S kit has .75cc dome pistons and the SE comes with flat tops.

Quote from: djl on January 02, 2019, 12:28:54 PM
JMHO but that would be a cost/benefit question for me.  Bore and fit new pistons will run about $500 in my neck of the woods and IIRC, any of the three 110" drop in kits will run $1100-$1200 plus shipping.  So, is the gain be it 3/3 or more worth the additional cost?

I prefer boring for a perfect fit to new pistons; not too trusting of a cylinder/piston combination that may be a not so perfect fit.  I would bore and fit new pistons and cut cylinder to zero deck while at it and find another place to spend the differencee, but again, JMHO.

I have .ooked into this as well, and Fuel Moto have said their cyl and piston kit (107) comes properly set up with even ring gaps set for each individual kit. Still $1000 though.

I always thought that it was no good idea to bore out a 96' or even a 103'  to 107" ??
I know many of you guys who build engines for a living on this site do it all the time, so it must be ok..... What are the disadvantages if any besides having cylinders with thinner walls,  running hotter?
I would like to know the truth from the guys who do it all the time.  Thanks for the info.
Thanks for putting up this thread,  good info for kits vs boring.

Quote from: Adam76 on January 02, 2019, 03:26:00 PM

Quote from: djl on January 02, 2019, 12:28:54 PM
JMHO but that would be a cost/benefit question for me.  Bore and fit new pistons will run about $500 in my neck of the woods and IIRC, any of the three 110" drop in kits will run $1100-$1200 plus shipping.  So, is the gain be it 3/3 or more worth the additional cost?

I prefer boring for a perfect fit to new pistons; not too trusting of a cylinder/piston combination that may be a not so perfect fit.  I would bore and fit new pistons and cut cylinder to zero deck while at it and find another place to spend the differencee, but again, JMHO.

I have .ooked into this as well, and Fuel Moto have said their cyl and piston kit (107) comes properly set up with even ring gaps set for each individual kit. Still $1000 though.

I always thought that it was no good idea to bore out a 96' or even a 103'  to 107" ??
I know many of you guys who build engines for a living on this site do it all the time, so it must be ok..... What are the disadvantages if any besides having cylinders with thinner walls,  running hotter?
I would like to know the truth from the guys who do it all the time.  Thanks for the info.
Thanks for putting up this thread,  good info for kits vs boring.

Considering where you are on the globe
I would think longevity would supplant squeaking a couple more horses out of a build

A tough Buck to beat here...

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=96877.msg1128483#msg1128483

Bob, did a similar 107 build in my '14 TK yielded 121/125 runs flawless, cool, no pms, very well mannered running machine

Hold it... just in case... is this for the 05 road glide  that's in your signature? If so, you will be looking in a whole different direction..

I have a 07+ 96" and 6 speed in it....

Economic standpoint sways in the direction of boring to 107" with a set of S&S EZ cams.

Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on January 03, 2019, 05:16:58 AM
Economic standpoint sways in the direction of boring to 107" with a set of S&S EZ cams.

Thank you.  Budget is not my primary focus here, all though yes it is a factor.  Maybe best way to describe it is "value"...  So if the 110 is the way to go I am more than willing to spend the extra money.  Do it right once...  I am not looking to do an "all out" 107 or 110 build.  Just a very strong runner that is daily ridden and is reliable and cool.  If the 110 has clear advantages over a 107 for a little more money that would seem to be the way to go.  I know there is some concern with the spigots being to small and the overall life of the 110 jugs... I am trying to figure out, and hopefully help other members here, if they are good and that concern is not warranted.  And that the 110 is a better value over the 107.

The end combination will, most likely, be 107 or 110, proper matching cams, headwork and pistons, lifters, pushrods, injectors, TB and intake work (unless a few of these items are not needed based on the overall build).  Basically most everything without splitting cases and doing crank work.  What the combination is what I am trying to learn and to find a vendor/builder to help me.  Scott in your opinion do you like the 110, 107, or is it a wash?

The 110", 4" bore will produce more, and sooner also, all thing same/same.
A good head/intake/exhaust combo, along with say a set of S&S .570's at 10.2 cr, would be a tame, quiet, cool running, engine.

Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on January 03, 2019, 11:24:53 AM
The 110", 4" bore will produce more, and sooner also, all thing same/same.
A good head/intake/exhaust combo, along with say a set of S&S .570's at 10.2 cr, would be a tame, quiet, cool running, engine.

I don't know if I've ever seen a dyno sheet with this combo (110 bolt on, S&S 570 and headwork). Seen 103, 106's-107's... I'd also like to see the CR570 with the specs hillside mentions.. Andrews 57 does good here too..

I'd like to see if the S&S .570 or CR570 are like the CR575... some of these stock head (castings) and "smaller" cams are loving the 4" bore of the 110" bolt on kit with a little headwork!

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=103272.msg1219939#msg1219939

Here you go! No headwork here.

There's another of a 117" with the S&S 570... 120tq at 2000rpm.

The harley or S&S kit are a better choice in terns of longevity. The uncoated CP bullet pistons are not that great and I have seen a few roached pretty bad. Bore finish and tune are to blame in most cases.

Quote from: HD Street Performance on January 03, 2019, 02:37:35 PM
The harley or S&S kit are a better choice in terns of longevity. The uncoated CP bullet pistons are not that great and I have seen a few roached pretty bad. Bore finish and tune are to blame in most cases.

So what you're saying is buy the S&S / HD Cylinders plus your choice of good pistons and bore/hone to fit ?
This makes good sense.  Seems like KBs are still a good choice for pistons?
Thanks 👍

delete

Quote from: Durwood on January 02, 2019, 03:01:26 PM
The old saying, there is no replacement for displacement still applies.

If you have someone local that can properly bore/fit the 107" set up, then it is truly cost effective. If not, by the time you buy the gaskets that are included in the 110" kit, pay shipping both ways, along with the cycle time, the cost difference becomes close to a wash IMO.

Which 110" kit is better? I like and use both S&S and SE depending on what we are putting together as far as compression ratio.

The S&S kit has .75cc dome pistons and the SE comes with flat tops.

For so many that don't like the bolt-on kits, what then becomes the cost difference of using CVO cylinders...though quite obviously more than either of the aforementioned and at that point going right on to a 117?

Quote from: Tail Ridr on January 04, 2019, 04:54:11 AM

Quote from: Durwood on January 02, 2019, 03:01:26 PM
The old saying, there is no replacement for displacement still applies.

If you have someone local that can properly bore/fit the 107" set up, then it is truly cost effective. If not, by the time you buy the gaskets that are included in the 110" kit, pay shipping both ways, along with the cycle time, the cost difference becomes close to a wash IMO.

Which 110" kit is better? I like and use both S&S and SE depending on what we are putting together as far as compression ratio.

The S&S kit has .75cc dome pistons and the SE comes with flat tops.

For so many that don't like the bolt-on kits, what then becomes the cost difference of using CVO cylinders...though quite obviously more than either of the aforementioned and at that point going right on to a 117?

Without a case bore a 103 becomes a 107 or 110 not a 117"

Quote from: Adam76 on January 03, 2019, 05:10:52 PM

Quote from: HD Street Performance on January 03, 2019, 02:37:35 PM
The harley or S&S kit are a better choice in terns of longevity. The uncoated CP bullet pistons are not that great and I have seen a few roached pretty bad. Bore finish and tune are to blame in most cases.

So what you're saying is buy the S&S / HD Cylinders plus your choice of good pistons and bore/hone to fit ?
This makes good sense.  Seems like KBs are still a good choice for pistons?
Thanks 👍

Or just buy the kit and use as-is, yes. A good idea to zero deck cut any of them. The KB std. piston will require a .001 hone to size  as they are slightly over.

Quote from: HD Street Performance on January 04, 2019, 06:27:15 AM

Quote from: Tail Ridr on January 04, 2019, 04:54:11 AM

Quote from: Durwood on January 02, 2019, 03:01:26 PM
The old saying, there is no replacement for displacement still applies.

If you have someone local that can properly bore/fit the 107" set up, then it is truly cost effective. If not, by the time you buy the gaskets that are included in the 110" kit, pay shipping both ways, along with the cycle time, the cost difference becomes close to a wash IMO.

Which 110" kit is better? I like and use both S&S and SE depending on what we are putting together as far as compression ratio.

The S&S kit has .75cc dome pistons and the SE comes with flat tops.

For so many that don't like the bolt-on kits, what then becomes the cost difference of using CVO cylinders...though quite obviously more than either of the aforementioned and at that point going right on to a 117?

Without a case bore a 103 becomes a 107 or 110 not a 117"

What I was trying to ask was this...Darren had mentioned that the cost of doing a 107 overbore or a 110 drop-on would become a wash in the end, in his opinion. There are those that are of the opinion that the drop-on kits are no good, so what i wondered was what the cost difference was in using CVO cylinders and doing a case bore or at that point...forgoing a 110 and just going right to a 117? I just didn't ask it in so many words...

It is a labor cost mostly, motor out vs top end job. Case bore labor.  If going to 110 and case boring it is a natural to skip right to a 117 with dished pistons. You can see the cylinder kits are about the same as the drop vs larger.

I went with the SE 110 kit for my 103 RK about a year ago, and I've been pleased as punch. I added S&S premium lifters, but everything else is from the kit. I had it tuned by one of the best tuners around, and it has been reliable with no issues. I'm not a hot-rodder, but I do often get on it, and I've never regretted the choice.

Did my 96 to a 110 drop in kit,even ran it for awhile with stock TB ,it is now getting a refresh with a 58mm SE TB,cr595 around 10:8 to 1. Pick your favorite 110 kit with a heavy duty cyl AND make sure the pistons have at least the skirts coated,Much quieter.Ask me how I know.Bolt the on 110 and down the road no case boring!Make sure the crank is good to go.