HarleyTechTalk

Hello fellow Harley riders,

I have recently bought an Accel A557 distributor, an Accel 140408BK single fire ignition coil and 175093 300+ Race spark plug wires. I've reached out to Holley.com, but they haven't answered me, so I'm hoping you guys can help me.

I have a 51 Panhead, that I'm trying to install the ignition system on, but I'm having a lot of problems trying to get it to work properly. I have followed the instructions very carefully, but no matter what I do, the engine won't start, and with my old points ignition it always fires right up. [attach=0]
I have installed an original Keihin CV40 from a 1993 Dyna, the cylinders have been enlarged to 82 cubic inches. I have approximately 12.3 Volt on the battery. The switches on the ignition system have been set to:
Operating mode 3: Street advance curves, single fire, multi-spark enabled
Advance slope 7: For stock or mildly modified engines running octane 92 or above. I'm running on octane 95.
Rev. limit has been set to 5700.

First of all the instructions says, that the ignition system requires resistor spark plugs. Which spark plugs would you guys recommend?
I have installed a set of brand new NGK XR5 spark plugs that produce a nice blue spark, even though it's not the biggest spark I've ever seen. I have measured the resistance on them with my multimeter, and they both have a value of 5kΩ.

Next, the instructions are a little vague!
In the beginning it says, that the red status LED flashes when the engine reaches top dead center (TDC), but later it says that I have to rotate the ignition unit back and forth until the red LED illuminates. Then slowly rotate the unit clockwise until the LED goes out. And note that the LED goes out at TDC.
So what is correct? That the LED flashes when the engine reaches TDC or has TDC been reached, when the LED goes out?
Right now I have set the ignition at the point, where the LED goes out.

Speaking of TDC, on my flywheel I have a line "│", that indicates 35⁰ BTDC and a dot "●", that indicates TDC. The instructions say that the crankshaft should be rotated until the TDC mark is precisely centered in the inspection hole. I'm assuming that the instructions mean the dot "●". On a lot of various Harley forums people claim that they can't start it unless the use line "│", as you normally would when timing a points ignition.
What do you recommend I do?

Next there's the question on how to position the upper housing and module assembly onto the distributor base assembly. The instructions say that the shutter wheel openings should be at about the 11 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions. And the figures in the instructions show that the slots in the upper housing should be at 11 o'clock and 5 o'clock positions. Is this correct? I have installed it like that, but some people on various forums are saying that the instructions are incorrect, and that the upper housing should be flipped 180⁰, so that both the shutter wheel and the upper housing are positioned at 11 o'clock and 7 o'clock.
Could you enlighten me , as to which positions are correct?

This is a link to the instructions:

file:///C:/Users/Bruger/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/QB2LKEZV/382-807.pdf


Thank you in advance.

Best regards

Morten from Denmark

You have verified that front cylinder actually is on compression stroke with both valves closed?

Hi xlfan,

Thank you for your reply!

Yes, the front cylinder is on the compression stroke with both valves closed.

They're fully closed at the advance mark (the line "│", that indicates 35⁰ BTDC), but the instructions say, that i should use the TDC mark (the dot "●").

By the way here's a link to the instructions, that actually work:

https://documents.holley.com/a557_form_1627_rev1.pdf

Do you have spark? Does it pop and backfire? You may be timing on the wrong slot in the shutter wheel.

Can you put pictures up of the parts? It would help...

Another thought..

Given that there's a built-in LED for static timing, you'll be able to check timings for both cylinders. (You'd need to mark the rear cylinder TDC on flywheel, perhaps with white-marker-pen).
Doing this would at least confirm the shutter wheel and housing are oriented correctly.

Hope this helps.

I am a bit puzzled as to how this setup could work at all without the S&S reverse timing gears. It looks like both shutter wheel and module is compatible with 70-99 setup when looking at the instructions.

Not all hall effect sensors are direction of rotation sensitive. I know this because I once fitted an Evo hall effect pickup to a '73 Triumph dragbike. It rotated the opposite direction compared to the Evo. I used a custom made multi-tooth shutter wheel with a Microsquirt ECU. It ran very well and enabled an improved record best 1/4 mile time.

As I understand it, direction sensitive hall effect pickups are dual channel, effectively it's 2 halls in one with a sophisticated integrated circuit. The IC expects these hall signals in a certain order else it will lock out the circuit.

The way I see it, should the hall sensor be not of the dual channel type, then 11 o'clock/5 o'clock will be for one direction of rotation while 11 o'clock/7 o'clock will be for the other.
Hope this helps. This stuff can be a brain teaser!

How's progress Sherif78?

Hi Excalibur and xlfan,

I'm sorry that I've been so unresponsive.

I've spent my time pulling my hair out and being frustrated about Holley.com not responding. I feel that I've tried almost everything possible.

I've recharged my battery and charged a spare car battery and connected them in parallel so that I was certain I had enough power. Unfortunately that didn't help anything. I've tried timing after the line "│", that indicates 35⁰ BTDC, but that did nothing. I borrowed an Andrews dual fire coil from a friend of mine, that is intended for electronic ignitions. According to the instructions I'm not allowed to use a coil with a bigger resistance than 4Ω, and the coil I borrowed is 4.8Ω, but I guess it should be able to at least fire, just not run well. But putting another coil on didn't make any difference. It still doesn't start.

There are 2 Hall effect sensors, but I must admit that I have no idea whether they are dual channel or not.

Right now, I have positioned the upper housing as per the instructions. There's a spark on both spark plugs, although it's not the brightest spark I've ever seen. I think I'll try some nonresistor spark plugs tomorrow. just to see if there's a difference.
Right now there's no pops, or backfires or anything. I tried reversing the upper housing position 180⁰, so that both the shutter wheel and the upper housing were located at 11 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions. That created a lot of backfire through the exhaust and the carburetor, depending on how much I advanced or retarded the module.
When using the LED to time the unit it seems to be more correct to follow the instructions, as the LED lights up very close to the position that the module is already in, and when I turned it 180⁰, I had to advance it almost 20⁰ to get the LED to light up.

If you face the backside of the module, with the adjustment slots centered at 9 and 3 o'clock, do you have the hall effect sensors located approximately at 12.30 and 7 o'clock?

Hmm, I'm not sure. I'll have to look at it tomorrow. Right now it's 1 pm here in Denmark. 😊

Sorry, I meant 1 AM. 

I had the Mallory version of this ignition .  Same ignition same instructions.  They aren't even correct instructions.  I can't remember exactly what you have to do differently.  But I had non-stop problems with that ignition.  Hard kicking and pinging.  It's well made but I think the company got sold before they really hashed the whole plan out.  Good luck getting any customer service too.  Like was said before it would need reverse gears to work the way the instructions are written.
I bought a Vulcan and never looked back.  I've also had luck with the Mallory unilite style with the mechanical advance.
Look up Mallory a557 on the Shovelhead forum and you will see what you need to know.  I feel your pain.

Would that be the shovelhead.USA forum?

Quote from: xlfan on March 03, 2019, 07:40:17 AM
Would that be the shovelhead.USA forum?

Hey Motorhead_smf,

Thank you vey much for your reply!

You're right about the customer service. I've written to Holley.com twice, and still no answer! 

Are you certain, that I need reverse timing gears? Did you put reverse timing gears on your bike?

Which Shovelhead forum are you referring to? I can't anything when I search for it.

I did however also find another fault with the system this weekend. The instructions recommend that you buy, the 300+ Race plug leads with suppressor core, which I did. It turns out that they don't have enough resistance in them. According to Accel's own video on YouTube, they plug leads must have at least 2500 - 3000 Ohm per feet, or otherwise the system will shut down after 1 revolution. The longest plug lead I have (front cylinder) is approximately 1.5 feet, was only 183 Ohm.
I tried putting on my old plug leads, who are also of the suppressor core type, and has the correct resistance. But unfortunately it didn't start with those.

Have you checked out the positioning of the hall effect sensors on your module?

Hi Xlfan,

Yes, they are at 12.30 and 7 o'clock. [attach=0]

 No I am not certain that you need reverse timing gears.  And I did not try that.  Mostly because a new Vulcan ignition that actually works was the same price.  Also heard very good things about the e-beyond 2000.

What I'm trying to say is the instructions can't be right.  If you rotate your ignition in the direction they are telling you to it is the opposite of what your actually doing.  I had mine running for a year and a half but it never ran near as good as it did once I finally gave up and bought something different.  I'm also not sure that the module is set for 0 dead rev firing which will make kick-starting a chore no matter what.
Once I got it to fire I pretty much rotated it until it ran the best.  This thing made my brain hurt every time I had to re-time.  Let me read the instructions and see if I can't remember better.
Shovelhead.us and then follow the links.

Okay starting to remember.  If you follow instructions it will fire after tdc which is the opposite of what you want.  That's why guys have luck with setting it at the advance mark.  If you set it tdc and rotate it ccw until the light goes out it should have you where you want it.
Basically the opposite of what it's telling you.

I'm not so sure that all the timing events are happening at the same time due to the reverse (normal) rotation of the timing gears.  In other words these generator motors spin opposite of the actual cam shaft and this ignition is telling you to time it the same as a cone motor.  It's an expensive ignition.  But something is not right.  Trust me.

Quote from: Sherif78 on March 04, 2019, 02:55:22 AM
Hi Xlfan,

Yes, they are at 12.30 and 7 o'clock.
[attach=0,msg1285010]

That is the same positioning as a single-fire module for 1970 to 1999 nose cone ignitions,  and they run the opposite direction.  It is impossible that it can work with timer cup running clockwise. You need reverse timing gears as far as I can figure out.

Okay, I guess I'll try rotating it counterclockwise instead.

I did actually notice, that the module is also used for the cone motors, so it would make good sense if the instructions doesn't work for a Panhead.

And yes, it's a very expensive ignition system, which is what pisses me of the most!  It was a Christmas and birthday present for myself, so I'm a bit reluctant to go and spend more money on another system, but the Vulcan ignition looks very appealing though. You're not the first person who recommends it.

I can't seem to find anything about the Mallory A557 on the Shovelhead.us forum....

Hi xlfan,

If that is the case, I'm just gonna give up and buy another ignition system. This is getting way out my comfort zone.

https://f88773fdccdd-004278.vbulletin.net/forum/technical/electrical/181823-genny-s-running-a-mallory-a557-tech-tip

https://f88773fdccdd-004278.vbulletin.net/forum/technical/electrical/179826-

https://f88773fdccdd-004278.vbulletin.net/search?q=Mallory+a557

Try these out.  Should muddy the waters even more. 

Hi Guys,

I can't thank you enough for all of your time, inputs and ideas!!

I have given up on the ignition system, and I've asked Summit Racing, which is where I've bought it, if it's possible for me to return it.

Thank you for the threads on the Shovelhead.us forum, Motorhead_smf! They only confirmed the suspicion of the fact that reverse timing gears are necessary in order to get the system to work on a 1936-1969 Big Twin

The Vulcan ignition has been recommended to me a couple of times now, so I'm looking in to buying that instead. But the PowerArc system and the EBeyond 2000 has also been mentioned.

Do any of you have any other options that you're happy with? Otherwise I think I'll go with the Vulcan ignition.

Quote from: Sherif78 on March 06, 2019, 06:49:36 PM
Hi Guys,

I can't thank you enough for all of your time, inputs and ideas!!

I have given up on the ignition system, and I've asked Summit Racing, which is where I've bought it, if it's possible for me to return it.

Thank you for the threads on the Shovelhead.us forum, Motorhead_smf! They only confirmed the suspicion of the fact that reverse timing gears are necessary in order to get the system to work on a 1936-1969 Big Twin

The Vulcan ignition has been recommended to me a couple of times now, so I'm looking in to buying that instead. But the PowerArc system and the EBeyond 2000 has also been mentioned.

Do any of you have any other options that you're happy with? Otherwise I think I'll go with the Vulcan ignition.

I'm running the Vulcan and it works and sets up pretty easy.  I had the Mallory with the unilite and mechanical advance and it worked good but was a little tricky to set up just because it had little tiny Allen's that went around the top cover.  Haven't tried anything but those two and this now notorious A557. 

Quote from: Sherif78 on February 21, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Hello fellow Harley riders,



Next, the instructions are a little vague!
In the beginning it says, that the red status LED flashes when the engine reaches top dead center (TDC), but later it says that I have to rotate the ignition unit back and forth until the red LED illuminates. Then slowly rotate the unit clockwise until the LED goes out. And note that the LED goes out at TDC.
So what is correct? That the LED flashes when the engine reaches TDC or has TDC been reached, when the LED goes out?
Right now I have set the ignition at the point, where the LED goes out.

I'm pretty sure the flashing is while running. It says while ignition on, rotate back and forth until LED comes on, then once that rotate clockwise until out. Then lock down. It says the standoffs, so they are just moving the module within the distributor. But I don't see why you couldn't move whole distributor.
So that is confusing because they say the LED "flashes" when on TDC. So to me that says it needs to be lit for TDC. But they are saying rotate until goes out.
And so does other brands.
Also they are saying clockwise which is correct for a nose cone Evo or Shovel setup because the rotor is rotating counterclockwise.
But don't the distributor shafts rotate clockwise??
Try going counterclockwise then locking down??

QuoteNext there's the question on how to position the upper housing and module assembly onto the distributor base assembly. The instructions say that the shutter wheel openings should be at about the 11 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions. And the figures in the instructions show that the slots in the upper housing should be at 11 o'clock and 5 o'clock positions. Is this correct? I have installed it like that, but some people on various forums are saying that the instructions are incorrect, and that the upper housing should be flipped 180⁰, so that both the shutter wheel and the upper housing are positioned at 11 o'clock and 7 o'clock.
Could you enlighten me , as to which positions are correct?

11 and 7 in relation to the screw holes at 9 and 3, then once the upper housing is back on rotate until the window in wheel lines up with one of the slots in the aluminum housing.

You tape up the purple VOES wire?

Is the module inside numbered 35496 like in Figure 1 in the instructions?
There is some weird conflicting info in regards to that. The instructions for the 35496 has a setting 9 "race advance curves, single fire, kick start". But no mention if it in the instructions for the A557 Distributor which appears to use that module.

[attach=0,msg1293622]
FWIW, so you are aware and if you get it running. Looking at the timing tables in the instructions, since you don't have a VOES switch to pull the purple wire to ground, you are never going to have 35 degrees advance unless you select a race curve.
Lastly I know you said you tried a dual fire coil. But there is this weird tidbit of info on the troubleshooting sheet about the singlefire.  Who knows what that's about.
[attach=1,msg1293622]
Best of luck if you get it working.