HarleyTechTalk

     Took my 2011 FLHRC out for the first ride of the season and in backing it down the driveway I immediately noticed that the front brake lever went all tyhe way to the handlebar when hauled in. Dealer did the brake recall/fluid flush deal around the last week of May- of last year. Worked ok when I put it up last Fall. Just tried calling them and they closed before 5:00 PM EST. I don't see any signs of leaks. I thought that if the controller failed there'd be more of a chance of the lever freezing up but this one will pump up a bit if you pump the lever several times.  I haven't looked yet but I imagine that the master cylinder resevoir is pretty low. Any ideas where the fluid went? Bill

Quote from: billbuilds on May 02, 2020, 02:05:28 PM
I thought that if the controller failed there'd be more of a chance of the lever freezing up

Not necessarily. Depends on which valves stuck.

Quote from: billbuilds on May 02, 2020, 02:05:28 PM
Any ideas where the fluid went? Bill

Into the ABS module.

     I made that module work on at least three occasions after they did the recall service; you could hear/feel the valves cycling. So now with the wonderful new fluid which is supposed to go a couiple of seasons before it needs flushing again my controller takes a  after sitting out the winter.  When they did the recall service The service  writer warned me that the valves might stick because of some residue.crud that can form in the old fluid and that a new module was in the $1200 range and did I want to go ahead with the flush? Ya, might's well. I was under the impression that if is passed this recall service flush in working order (which it did) it would be fine at the start of the following season (which it isn't. 

If you failed to service the fluid and exercise the module then there was probably already crud built up before you took it in. Sucks that they fail this way but I'm not surprised if it were never serviced. When I was servicing bikes in CA, I told everyone that they should have me or someone else change fluid and do the abs bleed every year to be safe.

The hydraulic unit isn't cheap but it's not hard to change. Takes about an hour or so.

If ya got a tool that cycles the ABS, you can always cycle the ABS each year and change fluids every two years per the recommendation. There are many riders that don't ride in a manner that activates the ABS so it has a tendency to only be cycled during fluid changes.

     I bought the bike used three seasons ago from an outfit that sells both used cars and used Harleys, There was an issue with the front brake lever being frozen so they were supposed to have replaced the moduletor assembly.    Can't believe that a new one would fail so soon. Ronnie's has them listed at $557.99 and then I'm going to need a scanalizer... and I already spent my stimulus money.

I think the issue is worse if the bike lives in a high humidity environment.

One other possibility is warped rotors- they will push the pads/piston back when you roll the bike, so the fluid goes back into the reservoir. (like loosing prime)

    Or wheel bearing play.

Quote from: rigidthumper on May 03, 2020, 09:02:00 AM
One other possibility is warped rotors- they will push the pads/piston back when you roll the bike, so the fluid goes back into the reservoir. (like loosing prime)

     Rotors and pads don't even have 2500 miles on them.

Quote from: kd on May 03, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
   Or wheel bearing play.

     Front wheel is brand new quality USA made with same miles as rotos and pads.

     You might recall that I said that I could get a little bit of lever if I pumped it.  Last night after dinner I went out to the garage and pumped the lever a bit faster than I initially had and I did not let the levber all the way out until I felt a half decent lever feel develop. I did three sessions of 20-25 pumps and for final measure I fast rolled the bike across the garage floor for about twelve feet then jammed on the front brake lever. Again the lever had a good feel and the same feel was there when I tried it this morning. It's nice out now; getting ready to go test the ABS.   

Are you sure there's no air bubbles in the system?

I was thinking I would at the very least bleed the brake as best you can before taking a chance on the road. Best yet would be to have the dealer bleed them.

Quote from: PoorUB on May 03, 2020, 02:07:50 PM
I was thinking I would at the very least bleed the brake as best you can before taking a chance on the road. Best yet would be to have the dealer bleed them.

     The damn dealer was the last entity to bleed them under the recall bleed/replace act.

Quote from: fleetmechanic on May 03, 2020, 12:46:29 PM

Are you sure there's no air bubbles in the system?

     I am starting to doubt whether they did the full bleed correctly. The DTT directions say to bleed normal way first time, through the controller the second time then a final normal brake bleed to take care of any air bubbles that may have formed in the controller,

     Brakes worked fine and the controller/ABS function is working fine as well. I'm going to call the dealer that serviced it this afternoon when I get home from work.   Bill

This is from the recall notice. HD updated the service manual in 2018, same time as recall, and it has basically the same procedure.  So youre saying in Step 9 they bleed brakes three times?  The instructions say to bleed again only if pedal/lever is spongy.

Add brake fluid as necessary. Verify proper operation of the master cylinder relief port by actuating the brake pedal or lever. A slight bulge of fluid will break the fluid surface in the reservoir if internal components are working properly.
5. Operate vacuum bleeder while maintaining fluid level in master cylinder reservoir.
a. Following the sequence, open bleeder screw about 3/4 turn. Refer to Table 4. b. Continue until specified volume has been replaced. Refer to Table 4. c. Tighten bleeder screw to specification.Install bleeder screw cap.
6. Repeat with each caliper following the sequence in service manual until all brake lines have been serviced.
7. Fill reservoir to specified level.
8. Clean gasket and sealing surfaces of debris.Install master cylinder reservoir covers.
9. Use DT II and perform "ABS Service" procedure. Special Tool: DIGITAL TECHNICIAN II (HD-48650)
10. Apply brakes to check proper lamp operation.

WARNING After servicing brakes and before moving motorcycle, pump brakes to build brake system pressure. Insufficient pressure can adversely affect brake performance, which could result in death or serious injury.(00279a) WARNING After repairing the brake system,test brakes at low speed. If brakes are not operating properly,testing at high speeds can cause loss of control, which could result in death or serious injury.(00289a)

11. Test ride motorcycle. Perform the bleeding procedure if brakes feel spongy.

Maybe the master cylinder needs to be rebuilt?  Looking at the cheapest alternative to the ABS module...

     The Twin Scan II instructions tell you to do a conventiional bleed before AND after you use theeir device to bleed the ABS brakes.http://www.daytona-twintec.com/twinscaniifaq.aspx   Wonder why they specify this and Harley does not.

Quote from: Leed on May 04, 2020, 08:01:04 AM
Maybe the master cylinder needs to be rebuilt?  Looking at the cheapest alternative to the ABS module...

I too was wondering if that might be an issue but no leaks and the lever is holding well with no sponginess.

    Apparently the dealer closes at 5 PM now, I was too late in trying to reach the service department today.

 As both an owner of a 2011 FLHRC and an abs victim, please let us know what you find is wrong. 

Flushing a second time can only help. Their must be very little residual fluid left in the abs, hence, HD flushes once.

Did a lot of research and the HD Platinum brake fluid is high quality. The same fluid can be purchased from the manufacturer under their label.  Its low viscosity and absorbs moisture at a slower rate then the common brands.  Im using Bosch 5.1.  Its also a low viscosity but most importantly imho is it has a 3 year service interval. In other words, it absorbs moisture at a slower rate.

Quote from: KumaRide on May 06, 2020, 07:50:32 AM
As both an owner of a 2011 FLHRC and an abs victim, please let us know what you find is wrong. 

Flushing a second time can only help. Their must be very little residual fluid left in the abs, hence, HD flushes once.

Did a lot of research and the HD Platinum brake fluid is high quality. The same fluid can be purchased from the manufacturer under their label.  Its low viscosity and absorbs moisture at a slower rate then the common brands.  Im using Bosch 5.1.  Its also a low viscosity but most importantly imho is it has a 3 year service interval. In other words, it absorbs moisture at a slower rate.

You using the ESI 6?

Yes. Its only $11.50 a quart right now on Amazon. Plenty for two flushes. Thinking about getting another one and storing it. Its in a metal container which is much better then plastic for storing and moisture. The container does make for a little more work though. Have to first poor fluid in a small container then into the master.

Quote from: KumaRide on May 06, 2020, 04:58:37 PM
Yes. Its only $11.50 a quart right now on Amazon. Plenty for two flushes. Thinking about getting another one and storing it. Its in a metal container which is much better then plastic for storing and moisture. The container does make for a little more work though. Have to first poor fluid in a small container then into the master.

I'm glad you posted. Once I searched after you mentioned it. It appears like it outperforms everything else out there, especially relating to the ABS issue as far as the moisture ordeal.
Priced nice for a whole quart also.
BTW, who did you come up with as the manufacturer of the Harley Platinum?

     I just got off the phone with one of the dealer's service writers.  He thinks that the problem lies, as Leed suggested, in the master cylinder. Says that a rebuild kit should do it though there is a slim chance that the m/c bore is pooched. Obviously they'll need to look at it. Man, I really hate paying for work that I could do myself but I don't have an electronic tech or a Twin Scan tool. I guess it's time to seriously consider buying one or the other.  Bill

I had the dealer perform the recommended flush of the brake system last fall. I am still dealing with a soft brake lever from air in the lines and I have brought it back twice already. The brake level felt fine when I first got it back and a day later the lever compressed all the way to the grip. So don't rule out a piss poor bleed job!

Tie the brake lever down overnight.

Didn't want to start a new thread and subject related so, I have a 2009 that I've had since new and have flushed system at least once a year using mighty-vac. It may have been done properly once with the rear brake switch recall but can't confirm. I've got a twinscan ll now but have hesitated to go thru the procedure in fear of hcu locking up and the item is dealer only. It makes me cringe to think I'd have to take it in to local dealer for this work, I'm a DIY'er because of their incompetence.

My question is what are the chances of hcu locking up doing it properly after so long? I've got a friend that had the fluid recall done and his hcu failed during this procedure, he hadn't changed fluid in it regularly. I guess there is only one way to find out, wish me luck.

The real question is do you want to find out it's failed in the garage or on the road when you need it? If a valve is going to stick, it's going to stick.

You can buy the HCU. Not sure why you think it's dealer only. (unless they've changed something I don't know about)