HarleyTechTalk

I hadn't seen anyone post the 121 CVO motor specs. Below are the more pertinent specs.

Type: Milwaukee Eight 121 Cu. In. With VVT
Bore: 4.075"
Stroke: 4.625"
Max torque: 139 ft.lbs. @ 3000 rpm
Max HP: 115 horsepower @ 4500 rpm
Throttle body: 58mm
Static compression: 11.4:1
Cooling: Air, liquid, and oil cooling

So we now have an EPA compliant motor with .95 HP per cubic inch. Not bad for a smog motor.

That 4.625" stroke has me excited. I wonder how large of a bore they can fit with that stroke and new compression height of the pistons.

Anyone planning on going to the 120th shin dig? I assume that they'll have these on hand to demo ride them. I bet they feel strong for a stock HD.

I'm really interested to see what August brings, a Roadking Special with a 121 VVT engine would be awesome 😎

I think that motor will be exclusive to the CVO.However I'm guessin the VVT tech will be applied to the rest of the line and hopefully a 2024 RK Standard.

Yeah I dunno, it's not exactly the same engine as the 117m8, time will tell.

Hey, they is a you tube video out that sows and explains hoe the VVT works and the cooling system.

Quote from: tolobill on July 10, 2023, 10:24:21 AMHey, they is a you tube video out that sows and explains hoe the VVT works and the cooling system.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,119665.0.html

Heads are very interesting.  I assume they retrofit.

Must be something wrong with me, I'm looking at that intake opening and wanting to tidy it up 😂

Quote from: Ohio HD on July 08, 2023, 11:24:53 PMI hadn't seen anyone post the 121 CVO motor specs. Below are the more pertinent specs.

Type: Milwaukee Eight 121 Cu. In. With VVT
Bore: 4.075"
Stroke: 4.625"
Max torque: 139 ft.lbs. @ 3000 rpm
Max HP: 115 horsepower @ 4500 rpm
Throttle body: 58mm
Static compression: 11.4:1
Cooling: Air, liquid, and oil cooling

So we now have an EPA compliant motor with .95 HP per cubic inch. Not bad for a smog motor.

That 4.625" stroke has me excited. I wonder how large of a bore they can fit with that stroke and new compression height of the pistons.

Anyone planning on going to the 120th shin dig? I assume that they'll have these on hand to demo ride them. I bet they feel strong for a stock HD.

Isn't that the same stroke as the 135" motor Harley has?  So 135" should be no problem.  I would think Harley  will have a 135 kit for this like the have the 131 for the 117.

135 will be the drop on kit for the 121 "Center Cooled" engines, but no SE map yet.

Quote from: Ohio HD on July 08, 2023, 11:24:53 PMI hadn't seen anyone post the 121 CVO motor specs. Below are the more pertinent specs.

Type: Milwaukee Eight 121 Cu. In. With VVT
Bore: 4.075"
Stroke: 4.625"
Max torque: 139 ft.lbs. @ 3000 rpm
Max HP: 115 horsepower @ 4500 rpm
Throttle body: 58mm
Static compression: 11.4:1
Cooling: Air, liquid, and oil cooling

So we now have an EPA compliant motor with .95 HP per cubic inch. Not bad for a smog motor.

That 4.625" stroke has me excited. I wonder how large of a bore they can fit with that stroke and new compression height of the pistons.

Anyone planning on going to the 120th shin dig? I assume that they'll have these on hand to demo ride them. I bet they feel strong for a stock HD.

I am guessing these numbers are at the crank?!

Quote from: ziggy24 on August 15, 2023, 03:18:04 AM

Quote from: Ohio HD on July 08, 2023, 11:24:53 PMI hadn't seen anyone post the 121 CVO motor specs. Below are the more pertinent specs.

Type: Milwaukee Eight 121 Cu. In. With VVT
Bore: 4.075"
Stroke: 4.625"
Max torque: 139 ft.lbs. @ 3000 rpm
Max HP: 115 horsepower @ 4500 rpm
Throttle body: 58mm
Static compression: 11.4:1
Cooling: Air, liquid, and oil cooling

So we now have an EPA compliant motor with .95 HP per cubic inch. Not bad for a smog motor.

That 4.625" stroke has me excited. I wonder how large of a bore they can fit with that stroke and new compression height of the pistons.

Anyone planning on going to the 120th shin dig? I assume that they'll have these on hand to demo ride them. I bet they feel strong for a stock HD.

I am guessing these numbers are at the crank?!

I'd think not.

Quote from: Coyote on August 15, 2023, 08:05:19 AM

Quote from: ziggy24 on August 15, 2023, 03:18:04 AM

Quote from: Ohio HD on July 08, 2023, 11:24:53 PMI hadn't seen anyone post the 121 CVO motor specs. Below are the more pertinent specs.

Type: Milwaukee Eight 121 Cu. In. With VVT
Bore: 4.075"
Stroke: 4.625"
Max torque: 139 ft.lbs. @ 3000 rpm
Max HP: 115 horsepower @ 4500 rpm
Throttle body: 58mm
Static compression: 11.4:1
Cooling: Air, liquid, and oil cooling

So we now have an EPA compliant motor with .95 HP per cubic inch. Not bad for a smog motor.

That 4.625" stroke has me excited. I wonder how large of a bore they can fit with that stroke and new compression height of the pistons.

Anyone planning on going to the 120th shin dig? I assume that they'll have these on hand to demo ride them. I bet they feel strong for a stock HD.

I am guessing these numbers are at the crank?!

I'd think not.

Yes, they are

SAE J1349 (torque testing method) assumes 85% drive train efficiency.

Here is the intake manifold.

You cannot view this attachment.

I'm sure that all of the aftermarket performance businesses are looking towards what they can do with the new 121 VVT motor. Feuling seems to be in high gear working towards products for these motors. This short video gives some highlights of what they're working on. It also looks like hrdtail78's assumption of retrofit on the heads is correct.

Some really exciting times are ahead I think for the M8 motor.

Quote from: Ohio HD on September 19, 2023, 07:33:01 AMFeuling seems to be in high gear working towards products for these motors. This short video gives some highlights of what they're working on. It also looks like hrdtail78's assumption of retrofit on the heads is correct.

Some really exciting times are ahead I think for the M8 motor.

The new M8 VVT is  very nice motor.  I have just over 1800 miles on it. I wanted to do what I always do with the CVO bikes, Fullsac Baffles because they work and sound good and you can keep the good looking stock exhaust.  At this point Steve is not making the Fullsac baffles for it, because instead of 2 tack welds holding the baffle in, Harley now welds the circumference.  That said his excellent M8 head pipe bolts right up.

The motor in the real world performs very well.  Same valve train noise as the regular M8 and video showed why.  Motor pulls good, and is smooth. You can feel the difference between rain, road and sport modes.  On motor side its throttle response and compression braking changes, so I am speculating it changes cam timing a little.

Being this motor has same stroke as the 135, will HD have a 135 Kit for it?  They have the cylinders, pistons, intake and so on for it.

You cannot view this attachment.

No ECM mapping at the moment for anything other than "121" Center cooled Stage 1" on the VVT models. The 135 cylinders and pistons are a bolt on, but no tuning device or tunes exist as of right now.

Quote from: FLSTFIDave on September 20, 2023, 04:55:37 AM

Quote from: Ohio HD on September 19, 2023, 07:33:01 AMFeuling seems to be in high gear working towards products for these motors. This short video gives some highlights of what they're working on. It also looks like hrdtail78's assumption of retrofit on the heads is correct.

Some really exciting times are ahead I think for the M8 motor.

The new M8 VVT is  very nice motor.  I have just over 1800 miles on it. I wanted to do what I always do with the CVO bikes, Fullsac Baffles because they work and sound good and you can keep the good looking stock exhaust.  At this point Steve is not making the Fullsac baffles for it, because instead of 2 tack welds holding the baffle in, Harley now welds the circumference.  That said his excellent M8 head pipe bolts right up.

The motor in the real world performs very well.  Same valve train noise as the regular M8 and video showed why.  Motor pulls good, and is smooth. You can feel the difference between rain, road and sport modes.  On motor side its throttle response and compression braking changes, so I am speculating it changes cam timing a little.

Being this motor has same stroke as the 135, will HD have a 135 Kit for it?  They have the cylinders, pistons, intake and so on for it.

You cannot view this attachment.

If your head pipe is the same, you should be able to use the cvo mufflers from earlier m8 bikes.

I used my 2017 cvo mufflers on my 2019 and my riding buddy has those same mufflers on his 2021. 

Quote from: rigidthumper on September 20, 2023, 05:14:15 AMNo ECM mapping at the moment for anything other than "121" Center cooled Stage 1" on the VVT models. The 135 cylinders and pistons are a bolt on, but no tuning device or tunes exist as of right now.

I understand this.  Harley already has a tuner for this bike.  What they need is an EPA compliant map for this bike as a 135.

QuoteIf your head pipe is the same, you should be able to use the cvo mufflers from earlier m8 bikes.

I used my 2017 cvo mufflers on my 2019 and my riding buddy has those same mufflers on his 2021. 

True.  I have no more CVO mufflers from the M8 left.  They went with my 19 I traded.  I have asked friends who have had M8 CVO's none have any.  My friends on CVO's mostly like me, went the Fullsac route.

Quote from: FLSTFIDave on September 21, 2023, 04:44:39 AM

QuoteIf your head pipe is the same, you should be able to use the cvo mufflers from earlier m8 bikes.

I used my 2017 cvo mufflers on my 2019 and my riding buddy has those same mufflers on his 2021. 

True.  I have no more CVO mufflers from the M8 left.  They went with my 19 I traded.  I have asked friends who have had M8 CVO's none have any.  My friends on CVO's mostly like me, went the Fullsac route.

IIRC
The 2023 cvo muffler is a little larger OD than last year's model?
I'll bet Steve is working on a solution for the new ones. It just takes a little time to get everything done and on the dyno.

It will be interesting to see what the new motor will produce with the Harley "stage kits" as they roll out!

I'll keep my 124. 😁

Quote from: HogMike on September 21, 2023, 06:41:48 AM

Quote from: FLSTFIDave on September 21, 2023, 04:44:39 AM

QuoteIf your head pipe is the same, you should be able to use the cvo mufflers from earlier m8 bikes.

I used my 2017 cvo mufflers on my 2019 and my riding buddy has those same mufflers on his 2021. 

True.  I have no more CVO mufflers from the M8 left.  They went with my 19 I traded.  I have asked friends who have had M8 CVO's none have any.  My friends on CVO's mostly like me, went the Fullsac route.

IIRC
The 2023 cvo muffler is a little larger OD than last year's model?
I'll bet Steve is working on a solution for the new ones. It just takes a little time to get everything done and on the dyno.

It will be interesting to see what the new motor will produce with the Harley "stage kits" as they roll out!

I'll keep my 124. 😁

Muffler is 4.5" instead of 4".  Baffle is now welded in, the entire circumference, instead of two tack welds like past CVO's.  I have talked to  Steve, he is trying to figure out if a tool can be made so customers can get baffle out with out destroying the muffler.

Steve's Fullsac head pipe fits just fine.

Quote from: hrdtail78 on August 18, 2023, 03:06:36 PMHere is the intake manifold.

You cannot view this attachment.

Interesting that they dumped the plastic manifold.

Quote from: FLSTFIDave on September 22, 2023, 05:12:42 AM

Quote from: HogMike on September 21, 2023, 06:41:48 AM

Quote from: FLSTFIDave on September 21, 2023, 04:44:39 AM

QuoteIf your head pipe is the same, you should be able to use the cvo mufflers from earlier m8 bikes.

I used my 2017 cvo mufflers on my 2019 and my riding buddy has those same mufflers on his 2021. 

True.  I have no more CVO mufflers from the M8 left.  They went with my 19 I traded.  I have asked friends who have had M8 CVO's none have any.  My friends on CVO's mostly like me, went the Fullsac route.

IIRC
The 2023 cvo muffler is a little larger OD than last year's model?
I'll bet Steve is working on a solution for the new ones. It just takes a little time to get everything done and on the dyno.

It will be interesting to see what the new motor will produce with the Harley "stage kits" as they roll out!

I'll keep my 124. 😁

Muffler is 4.5" instead of 4".  Baffle is now welded in, the entire circumference, instead of two tack welds like past CVO's.  I have talked to  Steve, he is trying to figure out if a tool can be made so customers can get baffle out with out destroying the muffler.

Steve's Fullsac head pipe fits just fine.

👍👍