HarleyTechTalk

2014 CVO Roadking, when it was new installed S&S premium lifters. Bike has always had some ticking that was noticeable in 2nd gear and cruising in 3rd gear at a specific rpm range, but would go quiet with a change in speed or a gear change, I attributed it to the valve springs. The bike has low mileage, 19,000 and lately the noise is getting louder. I'm probably due for new lifters at this mileage, but they are still quiet. I've heard the springs are overkill, am I due for a look inside the heads? 

Quote from: Deye76 on October 08, 2023, 07:00:48 AM2014 CVO Roadking, when it was new installed S&S premium lifters. Bike has always had some ticking that was noticeable in 2nd gear and cruising in 3rd gear at a specific rpm range, but would go quiet with a change in speed or a gear change, I attributed it to the valve springs. The bike has low mileage, 19,000 and lately the noise is getting louder. I'm probably due for new lifters at this mileage, but they are still quiet. I've heard the springs are overkill, am I due for a look inside the heads? 

Rocker arm shaft shims and the product Rocker Lockers.

The above things, I think, should be done no matter what.

You could be losing a lifter.

Wfolarry has done a very good thread on lifters.

110 have 180 lb springs ? Pretty much the norm for performance Cams . 

Replacing the lifters is a safe bet.
I throw the springs from 110 heads right in the garbage. Wrong spring for that application.

"I throw the springs from 110 heads right in the garbage. Wrong spring for that application."

Thank You. You are not the only one who actually does heads to say that.

Those S&S Premiums, no longer available, were very good lifters. I suspect made the same as the Johnson Hylifts WFO Larry sells and made by Johnson Hylift AKA Topline Automotive. Not that one can't go bad. Any lifter can.
Also take note of the preload they were adjusted to.

Just a thought...
I had a 2012 CVO SG with the 110.  I put in a Andrews 57 cam, adjustable pushrods, and compcam 850 lifters and had it tuned.  That bike always tapped and tapped and sounded like it was coming apart.
I read a lot about the 110 valve springs being overkill. They were dual wound and I hear very stout.
So, I thought maybe I should do a preventative replacement of the stock springs. I took the bike to what I thought was a reputable builder in DFW area and had a mild head job done. New seals and behive spirngs and cleaned up.
Not long after that one of the behive springs broke.
Yeah, pissed me off.

You cannot view this attachment.

And, another thought....
That 110 motor tapped like something was hitting something else...turned out to be the pr hitting the pr tube.You cannot view this attachment.You cannot view this attachment.

There's always the chance of a bad spring, some will break, although very few. I have beehives that Larry installed on a set of MVA heads that are on my 124". I think he used AV&V. Brand new heads, he tossed the OEM double springs. I would have done the same had he sent them back.

Truth be told, it's a pretty quiet 124" motor.

I try to NEVER use "Beehive Springs" on the heads I work on. It is, what it is. If the customer insists, he signs a release statement. It's NOT always the spring, the customer factors in as well.
John

Quote from: jsachs1 on October 09, 2023, 01:53:19 PMI try to NEVER use "Beehive Springs" on the heads I work on. It is, what it is. If the customer insists, he signs a release statement. It's NOT always the spring, the customer factors in as well.
John

Most consider beehives the way to go. Personally I'm running these. 150# seat pressure.347# open pressure @ .600 lift.

https://shop.kpmivalvetrain.com/p/racing-spring-kit-steel-0-600-lift-various-hd-applications-1

Quote from: jsachs1 on October 09, 2023, 01:53:19 PMI try to NEVER use "Beehive Springs" on the heads I work on. It is, what it is. If the customer insists, he signs a release statement. It's NOT always the spring, the customer factors in as well.
John

The next set of heads Larry did for me we used PAC double springs and retainers.

I am also in the double spring group.  I just can't get over the thought of a broken coil without backup.  Broken springs are not rare enough nor is the associated damage when one does let go.

When the aftermarket first started offering beehive springs There were some breaking. I had a set break on my own bike.
After I figured out why they were breaking they did too & made some changes. Now it's very rare for me to see a broken spring.
I also have a nice .650 dual spring & an even nicer .700 spring for the guys that don't want the Beehive.
Since HD switched over to Beehives I've seen more broken retainers than springs on stock heads.

QuoteI've seen more broken retainers than springs on stock heads.

For my own continuing education.  I would have thought that breaking a retainer is almost impossible as there is no place for it to go or flex.  Obviously my assumption is wrong. 

Do you believe it is an issue with how the retainer is installed?

or...........

Just a result of the associated pressure?

It's a material issue. Something in the manufacturing process.
They don't bend they break if that helps.

Quote from: chaos901 on October 11, 2023, 01:05:10 PM

QuoteI've seen more broken retainers than springs on stock heads.

For my own continuing education.  I would have thought that breaking a retainer is almost impossible as there is no place for it to go or flex.  Obviously my assumption is wrong. 

Do you believe it is an issue with how the retainer is installed?

or...........

Just a result of the associated pressure?

I've been seeing broken and cracked stock retainers on dual springs and beehives since the factory started using the shiny powdered metal retainers on the twin cams. On a stock rebuild I replace the stock retainers with chromemoly steel retainers. It's cheap insurance.

Quote from: SP33DY on October 13, 2023, 12:00:25 PM

Quote from: chaos901 on October 11, 2023, 01:05:10 PM

QuoteI've seen more broken retainers than springs on stock heads.

For my own continuing education.  I would have thought that breaking a retainer is almost impossible as there is no place for it to go or flex.  Obviously my assumption is wrong. 

Do you believe it is an issue with how the retainer is installed?

or...........

Just a result of the associated pressure?

I've been seeing broken and cracked stock retainers on dual springs and beehives since the factory started using the shiny powdered metal retainers on the twin cams. On a stock rebuild I replace the stock retainers with chromemoly steel retainers. It's cheap insurance.

Oh man I read this and to resist the urge to run out to the shed and pull the rocker covers off the bike 

Hilly I just bought a set of av&v dual springs suited for up to .600 lift cams along with some new chromoly retainers. Piece of mind