HarleyTechTalk

I think I have lost my mind, or maybe having a mid life crisis but i am thinking of doing the unthinkable: Building and engine for my bagger (Hate it).

It has to be stealth, from the exterior there can be no indicator of anything other than TC88 bagger lameness. I am thinking of having the oem cylinders bored and sleeved for 4-⅛" pistons and having the oem heads worked over. Would also be cool to use some of the expensive BS I have accumulated over the years.

Big picture:
4-⅛" bore by 4" stroke (107" all bore)
8" connecting rods (already have them)
RedShift 647 gear drive cams (Already have them)
KromeWorks or S&S 2-2 crossover oem looking head pipes
Power Vision w/wide bands
As big of an air filter that can fit under the oem football AC cover.
Maybe 11.5-ish compression.

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out based on what I get deals on.

Right now I plan to do all the machine work without disturbing the original '05 patina on the various engine castings. Will be a total sleeper.

The intent is to surprise the bagger clowns I sometime ride with. After having their dealer stage stupid build repeatedly smoked they will probably ask some really clueless questions to which I will respond by digressing into irrelevancies. Maybe tell them I have some magic lifters or some silly oil concoction.

Have not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

I think that's a cool project. Zippers has some decent air breathers that fit under the OEM cover. They stick outward a little.

I can completely understand the stealth concept. Just tell them you knocked the baffles out of the mufflers, no tune necessary, the computer compensates for it.
Looking forward to seeing how it turns out for you.

Quote from: Hossamania on October 11, 2023, 10:41:24 AMI can completely understand the stealth concept. Just tell them you knocked the baffles out of the mufflers, no tune necessary, the computer compensates for it.
Looking forward to seeing how it turns out for you.

That is the plan. Maybe run some of those magical E3 spark plugs and talk them up too.

Sleepers are keepers 😁👍

Better figure in ACR's if you want a sleeper. Older heads can be modified for them.   

I have a set of KB forged pistons for that. They're flat tops though so I don't think you would get enough compression for that cam.
I did use that cam in a 100" Fatso motor that ran great with flat tops so you'd have to do the math to see if it's where you want it.
I'll give you a killer deal on them. Been on the shelf for a while. Another build that never came to fruition.

Quote from: turboprop on October 11, 2023, 10:17:12 AMI think I have lost my mind, or maybe having a mid life crisis but i am thinking of doing the unthinkable: Building and engine for my bagger (Hate it).

It has to be stealth, from the exterior there can be no indicator of anything other than TC88 bagger lameness. I am thinking of having the oem cylinders bored and sleeved for 4-⅛" pistons and having the oem heads worked over. Would also be cool to use some of the expensive BS I have accumulated over the years.

Big picture:
4-⅛" bore by 4" stroke (107" all bore)
8" connecting rods (already have them)
RedShift 647 gear drive cams (Already have them)
KromeWorks or S&S 2-2 crossover oem looking head pipes
Power Vision w/wide bands
As big of an air filter that can fit under the oem football AC cover.
Maybe 11.5-ish compression.

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out based on what I get deals on.

Right now I plan to do all the machine work without disturbing the original '05 patina on the various engine castings. Will be a total sleeper.

The intent is to surprise the bagger clowns I sometime ride with. After having their dealer stage stupid build repeatedly smoked they will probably ask some really clueless questions to which I will respond by digressing into irrelevancies. Maybe tell them I have some magic lifters or some silly oil concoction.

Have not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

Pretty sure that you will need to bore the case and get new cylinders.

Then I would have the flywheel balanced, trued and welded.

Whose doing the heads?

Quote from: RoadKingKohnPretty sure that you will need to bore the case and get new cylinders. Then I would have the flywheel balanced, trued and welded.

Case will need boring but OEM pistons can be sleeved; MTC machined and sleeved mine for an all bore 107" motor a few years back. Hoban did my crank.

Quote from: turboprop on October 11, 2023, 10:17:12 AMHave not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

Given how much you use it to refer to baggers you have to have BARF in the name somehow.
Maybe even just BARF but some sort of cool acronym out of it. 

Everyone, I have built a high-compression big block or two. Several of them have been plastered all over this forum. The Smack-A-Hoe TC124 in my red FXR is currently cranking out 158hp SAE on the dyno at the former Ray Price dealership. The Torque-A-Hoe TC124 in my blue FXR is cranking 1502tq on the same dyno. I got this.

No, I do not need new cylinders. OEM TC88 cylinders can easily be bored and sleeved for a 4-⅛" sleeve.The 8" rods create a complication that may be solved at the piston, or with a stroker plate. Maybe even discarded. Will see.

Yes cases have to be bored. Sort of a given for the big bore. Will also be set up for a Timken. Possibly even machined to use the late style camshafts, and a couple other things mods borrowed from the racing program.

Heads will be done by either Baisley, Larry, Hillside or maybe even Vance or Ward. The head shop selected will really be determined by their current backlog.

I got this, but will not be getting into the weeds with all the minutia. Not my style.

Quote from: wfolarry on October 11, 2023, 02:00:51 PMI have a set of KB forged pistons for that. They're flat tops though so I don't think you would get enough compression for that cam.
I did use that cam in a 100" Fatso motor that ran great with flat tops so you'd have to do the math to see if it's where you want it.
I'll give you a killer deal on them. Been on the shelf for a while. Another build that never came to fruition.

I like the idea of flat tops but thinking about doing an Axtell style 20 degree dome. Will leave this to the head guru to sort out.

I ran a RS647 in my EVO 106" Taj-May-Motor at 11.8 compression. Ran very well in that light FXR. The bagger that this is going in has me a bit concerned. It is really the only bagger I have ever ridden and it is fat, heavy and slow. Not sure how it will respond to an over-square, high compression engine with late closing intakes. Will see. If it doesn't work I still have two FXRs with big blocks to ride while I sort out the bagger.

Nothing a bit of ratio manipulation can't sort out, get that far lady boogie'in 😁

Quote from: djl on October 11, 2023, 04:59:33 PM

Quote from: RoadKingKohnPretty sure that you will need to bore the case and get new cylinders. Then I would have the flywheel balanced, trued and welded.

Case will need boring but OEM pistons cylinders can be sleeved; MTC machined and sleeved mine for an all bore 107" motor a few years back. Hoban did my crank.

Need to correct previous post. The all bore 107 I built for my '02 FLHT was not a high compression build at 190ccp. The bike ran well 110HP/124TQ, not near what Turboprops build will put out but a lot of fun to ride.  Surprised some larger displacement M8s when they were first introduced.

Quote from: turboprop on October 11, 2023, 10:17:12 AMI think I have lost my mind, or maybe having a mid life crisis but i am thinking of doing the unthinkable: Building and engine for my bagger (Hate it).

It has to be stealth, from the exterior there can be no indicator of anything other than TC88 bagger lameness. I am thinking of having the oem cylinders bored and sleeved for 4-⅛" pistons and having the oem heads worked over. Would also be cool to use some of the expensive BS I have accumulated over the years.

Big picture:
4-⅛" bore by 4" stroke (107" all bore)
8" connecting rods (already have them)
RedShift 647 gear drive cams (Already have them)
KromeWorks or S&S 2-2 crossover oem looking head pipes
Power Vision w/wide bands
As big of an air filter that can fit under the oem football AC cover.
Maybe 11.5-ish compression.

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out based on what I get deals on.

Right now I plan to do all the machine work without disturbing the original '05 patina on the various engine castings. Will be a total sleeper.

The intent is to surprise the bagger clowns I sometime ride with. After having their dealer stage stupid build repeatedly smoked they will probably ask some really clueless questions to which I will respond by digressing into irrelevancies. Maybe tell them I have some magic lifters or some silly oil concoction.

Have not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

Just curious as how you will put O2 wide-band sensors on this bike, as the ecm has no provisions for them? If you are talking about the add on kit from powervision, I was told they only function during tuning and do not provide constant feedback, like the newer systems that are set up for that.

Sounds like fun, reminds me of George Bryce's "Farm Bike" road king that he got into the 10's with 98" and 140hp

Quote from: ziggy24 on October 12, 2023, 09:51:31 AM

Quote from: turboprop on October 11, 2023, 10:17:12 AMI think I have lost my mind, or maybe having a mid life crisis but i am thinking of doing the unthinkable: Building and engine for my bagger (Hate it).

It has to be stealth, from the exterior there can be no indicator of anything other than TC88 bagger lameness. I am thinking of having the oem cylinders bored and sleeved for 4-⅛" pistons and having the oem heads worked over. Would also be cool to use some of the expensive BS I have accumulated over the years.

Big picture:
4-⅛" bore by 4" stroke (107" all bore)
8" connecting rods (already have them)
RedShift 647 gear drive cams (Already have them)
KromeWorks or S&S 2-2 crossover oem looking head pipes
Power Vision w/wide bands
As big of an air filter that can fit under the oem football AC cover.
Maybe 11.5-ish compression.

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out based on what I get deals on.

Right now I plan to do all the machine work without disturbing the original '05 patina on the various engine castings. Will be a total sleeper.

The intent is to surprise the bagger clowns I sometime ride with. After having their dealer stage stupid build repeatedly smoked they will probably ask some really clueless questions to which I will respond by digressing into irrelevancies. Maybe tell them I have some magic lifters or some silly oil concoction.

Have not named this project yet. Might be something like Project 'Bagger-Hoe'.

Just curious as how you will put O2 wide-band sensors on this bike, as the ecm has no provisions for them? If you are talking about the add on kit from powervision, I was told they only function during tuning and do not provide constant feedback, like the newer systems that are set up for that.

Bike is an '05. Will have to use either Power Vision or Thundermax. Maybe even a unit from Daytona Twin Tech (available with either Speed Density or Alpha-N firmware). Really comes down to Speed Density vs Alph-N. The kneee jerk reaction around here is Speed Density/Good, Alpha N/Bad. For me it will be price and availability that wins the day. No loyalties to any system or brand. If I were inclined to do so, I would wire in some narrow bands to my late '05 factory ECM but tune it on a dyno using wide bands. Probably easier and better to flush the old OEM module and start fresh.

Interesting tidbit. I dont recall you being around here years ago during the 'Tuner Wars'. <Rolls Eyes>  There used to be hourly knife fights over everything regarding EFI tuning. Most of the gunfighters moved on to other platforms once a few personnel were removed from the page. For this reason I really try to steer clear of anything related to tuning as there are still a few here that take it really personal.

Quote from: turboprop on October 12, 2023, 01:08:24 PManything related to tuning as there are still a few here that take it really personal.

Guilty 

Quote from: djl on October 12, 2023, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: djl on October 11, 2023, 04:59:33 PM

Quote from: RoadKingKohnPretty sure that you will need to bore the case and get new cylinders. Then I would have the flywheel balanced, trued and welded.

Case will need boring but OEM pistons cylinders can be sleeved; MTC machined and sleeved mine for an all bore 107" motor a few years back. Hoban did my crank.

Need to correct previous post. The all bore 107 I built for my '02 FLHT was not a high compression build at 190ccp. The bike ran well 110HP/124TQ, not near what Turboprops build will put out but a lot of fun to ride.  Surprised some larger displacement M8s when they were first introduced.

I think you had your oem cylinders re-sleeved for your all bore 107. Is this correct?

Also, my high compression 107" will still have sub 210 CCP ( or near 210) as a result of the later intake closing of the RS647 cams.

Quote from: lonewolf on October 12, 2023, 03:49:15 PM

Quote from: turboprop on October 12, 2023, 01:08:24 PManything related to tuning as there are still a few here that take it really personal.

Guilty 

Guns or knives 😂

Edit, probably tomahawks haha

Seriously but, being an 05 it's an easy convert to narrow bands, tuner of choice, could even whack the HD wideband kit on it then if you wanted(and can find one). Tuning to the ninth degree on the road is risky, life, limb, license, do you know anyone that can tune properly with Tmax apart from Max(it can be done) not many dyno fella's want to play that game these days.
Whatever you do I know it will kick behind, interested to see how it all turns out in the end.

What is this Ed?  Your 4th midlife crisis?

Speak of the devil 😁

Quote from: Admiral Akbar on October 12, 2023, 08:59:02 PMWhat is this Ed?  Your 4th midlife crisis?

Sort of running out of things to do to the FXRs. Was thinking of building a rigid, but dont want another bike in the garage. Was also thinking of doing another 911 frame off, but really do not want six years of clutter. So I turned to the bagger. Still in the thinking about stage. Have to do some ciphering and figure out the piston.