HarleyTechTalk

New here and not sure if this is the right place to look for help. Looking for some ideas. New to me 96 Sportster 1200. Belonged to a trade school at one point and I got it real cheap. Fully charged battery with new 4 gauge cables. Battery cable straight to the starter with a jumper for the solenoid. No carb or exhaust on it for testing. Won't turn over past TDC with rear plug in maybe 2 turns so I know it is not hitting the plug and turns over too slow with just front plug in. Plug wires not on plugs. Pulled the rocker covers and valves appear to be opening. Pulled cam cover and all timing marks look like they are lined up correctly. Pulled primary cover and everything looks good there as well. Pulled the starter and put it in my 104 HP 94 Sportster and fires that up just fine. Am I overlooking something or time to just tear it apart? Any help would be appreciated.

Have you tried a jump on the battery?
Does it turn over faster with no plugs in it?

Does turn over completely but slow with no plugs in it. Have a fully charged battery hooked to a 30 amp charger while trying to start it.

What method are you using to determine a good battery?

Do you have access to a VOM and load tester?

I do not have a load tester but do have a VOM. I tried 2 batteries hook together plus the charger. Had over 16 volts initially before trying to crank. Cranked great maybe 2 or 3 revolutions then slowed right down to almost nothing and voltage at the starter was like 3 volts while trying to crank.

Sounds like a possibly a bad battery. Take that one out of the loop and try another.

I will try that tomorrow. Maybe take the 2 hour round trip to Auto Zone as I think they can load test it for me. Thanks for the help.

Charge the battery then connect the VOM to the battery and try to start.
Note the voltage drop while cranking.
Post results.

I'm with the herd thinking the Battery being the issue - and if not, you have wiring/grounding issue(s).

You might consider installing a new ground cable from the Battery's Neg post to the Starter body as long term insurance.

If the battery fails load test and you buy a new one yet she still rolls slow, please attach an audio - or a video clip with audio of the issue.

Wiring is not an issue as I have the motor on the bench.
New 4 gauge wire from positive Battery to starter.
New 4 gauge wire from negative Battery to engine case.
Jumper wire from solenoid to battery positive to turn over.
No other wiring involved.
I hope to get the battery load tested tomorrow and if that checks out I do have a hi-torque starter I can try.

QuoteDoes turn over completely but slow with no plugs in it.

give the bores a couple of squirts of oil

If by bores you are referring to the cylinder bores I already tried that as well.

Since you have easy access (engine on bench), Drop a heavy gauge wire from Battery Neg to Starter body (mounting bolt is a decent point, if clean) and try once more for the Gypper.

Eliminates one more possible cause of frustration and expense (yet I'm still with the Battery herd).

Latest update. I bought a Battery Load Tester and the battery checked out OK. Over 200 CCA after 10 seconds on the tester. I googled the numbers on the battery and it says it is a 500 CCA AGM Battery. Being a really old guy I googled how to do a youtube video and it can be seen here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0QdC_L_-uc      It seems to me with no plugs in it it should turn longer than 9 seconds. And voltage dropping to under 7 volts. After it would no longer turn the battery is still at 100% according to the charger and at 12.94 Volts. The good starter I removed was doing the same thing and is presently starting my 94 Sportster with no issues. Someone suggested moving the ground wire to the starter case but there is no good size bolt to do that on the case. Mounting bolts are inside the primary. Anyone come up with any more ideas? I do appreciate the help.

Quote from: Thom1724 on August 19, 2024, 01:11:07 PMBeing a really old guy I googled how to do a private youtube video and it can't be seen here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0QdC_L_-uc     

Fixed it for you.

Nope. Not "MOVE" the ground cable....rather "ADD" a new ground cable from the Battery Negative post to the Starter (mounting bolt worked for me).

The starter finds it's ground through its casing from the inner primary casing which should in turn find it's ground through the engine which in turn finds its ground through the frame mounting bolts which find their ground through the frame and the battery Negative cable is connected to the frame.

So, by installing an additional new cable from the Battery Neg post directly to the starter casing (via a mounting bolt is fine if tight and clean) you may find the starter turns strong since the new good grounding point is provided by bypassing all the other aforementioned routing.

For all the effort required, it's a simple, inexpensive & easy thing to do.

Can you turn the motor over using a long handled wrench on the primary? I've not done it, I'm asking if it is possible. Doing that to check if the engine is binding.
That 7 volt reading still makes me suspect the battery. Do you have another that you can try?
Does the questionable battery turn your other motor over better, either with the plugs in or out? (Ground the plug wires to prevent ignition damage)

Update to my progress. Pulled the new battery out of my other Sportster, load tested it as good, and hooked it to the motor. Pulled out a high torque starter I had and installed it as well. Still the same results. Then pulled the primary and tried to turn the engine by hand using a 1/2" drive torque wrench. OH MY...Took all I had to move it and over 60 FT LBS to get it to move with no spark plugs so looks like I will be tearing it down to find what is causing it. But I do thank everyone that tried to help.

Guess that would be why you got such a good deal from the school. It will be interesting to hear what you find...good luck!

Problem found sort of. Just thought I would update everyone. Pulled the complete primary assembly. Still hard to turn crank with a breaker bar. Pulled the entire top end including pistons and everything looks great but still hard to turn with a breaker bar. Pulled the cam cover and turning got better but still somewhat hard. Pulled the cams and the crank spins very easily. Put the cover back on, and takes no effort what so ever to turn the crank by hand. Cam cover seems to have no damage so I can only conclude it is bad bushings or a bent cam and not a bent crank. A couple of cam bushings do appear to have some scoring. Thanks everyone for your help. Thom

About 10 or 15 years ago I had an Iron Sportster come in with a similar problem. It had an aftermarket cam cover and one of the cam bushings was way off. I don't remember why the customer didn't want to just get a different cover and try it. I think maybe he bought a basket case engine. The alignment was off far enough that with a new bushing, and using the case to line ream it, the reamer was not cleaning up on one side of the new bushing. I had to make a new bronze bushing out of solid bronze rod, set the cover and case half assembly in the mill to pilot off the inner cam bearing hole to align and re-center the hole in the bushing. From your description of what you are experiencing, you might have the same issue.