HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: wfolarry on December 24, 2023, 04:49:54 AM

Quote from: pauly on December 23, 2023, 02:30:45 PMHi all
Update on this issue - it's no longer an issue, however drinking oil became a problem.
I've been unable to replicate the lack of performance in 4000 ks, and I've tried in numerous conditions.

What did seem to become an issue was oil consumption. It seemed that every few hundred ks, I'd loose another couple of notches on the dipstick. Anyhoo, about 2 weeks ago, I loaded the wife and some luggage, let her know I was going to hammer it a few times, and did exactly that, a number of times over a 600 k ride. The oil consumption has stopped.
So, for those of you that are suffering oil consumption with your m8, and haven't tried aggressively seating your rings, turn off the traction control, and give it a go. YMMV but it seems to have worked for me.

Thanks
Pauly

That doesn't happen. Your rings were seated long before that.

Or not.  In any case doing this now really changes nothing.  Rings are seated or no seated (and never will be) by this state.

Okydoky - SOmething else changed on that ride then. I don't know what, but the oil consumption has stopped.
Thanks
Pauly

Quote from: ultrafxr on December 26, 2023, 03:03:54 PM

Quote from: wfolarry on December 24, 2023, 04:49:54 AM

Quote from: pauly on December 23, 2023, 02:30:45 PMHi all
Update on this issue - it's no longer an issue, however drinking oil became a problem.
I've been unable to replicate the lack of performance in 4000 ks, and I've tried in numerous conditions.

What did seem to become an issue was oil consumption. It seemed that every few hundred ks, I'd loose another couple of notches on the dipstick. Anyhoo, about 2 weeks ago, I loaded the wife and some luggage, let her know I was going to hammer it a few times, and did exactly that, a number of times over a 600 k ride. The oil consumption has stopped.
So, for those of you that are suffering oil consumption with your m8, and haven't tried aggressively seating your rings, turn off the traction control, and give it a go. YMMV but it seems to have worked for me.

Thanks
Pauly

That doesn't happen. Your rings were seated long before that.

Or not.  In any case doing this now really changes nothing.  Rings are seated or no seated (and never will be) by this state.

I have a Road Glide Limited 2021.
Regarding the oil consumption.
I understand this result is considered not possible.
I was experiencing the same thing up to about 6000 miles. 
I figured what the heck and gave it a try the same way the OP did and spent a weekend hammering it up to redline and down-shifting with high revs.
I had the same results as the OP.


I also have a Road King 2021 and have not had the same issue.

I love it when the impossible becomes possible! ;-)

Thanks
Pauly

Quote from: L88 on January 07, 2024, 07:53:50 AMI have a Road Glide Limited 2021.
Regarding the oil consumption.
I understand this result is considered not possible.
I was experiencing the same thing up to about 6000 miles. 
I figured what the heck and gave it a try the same way the OP did and spent a weekend hammering it up to redline and down-shifting with high revs.
I had the same results as the OP.


I also have a Road King 2021 and have not had the same issue.

Quote from: pauly on January 31, 2024, 02:00:13 PMI love it when the impossible becomes possible! ;-)

Thanks
Pauly

Quote from: L88 on January 07, 2024, 07:53:50 AMI have a Road Glide Limited 2021.
Regarding the oil consumption.
I understand this result is considered not possible.
I was experiencing the same thing up to about 6000 miles. 
I figured what the heck and gave it a try the same way the OP did and spent a weekend hammering it up to redline and down-shifting with high revs.
I had the same results as the OP.


I also have a Road King 2021 and have not had the same issue.

This link will support your findings.   It's something we have discussed here before.   It's the method I have always used successfully.  I admit when I started to do building hot rod engines back in the early 70's, it was more because I was impatient and fell into it mostly by accident.  The first couple of oil changes at 50 then 100 or so, getting it up to temp while accelerating and decelerating, cooling it off when up to temp (heat cycles) and doing it again and it happens on its own.  Look at the pics of the pistons and the light bub will come on.

If you really want to learn something about rings Total Seal has quite a few videos on YouTube that explain a lot.

Quote from: ultrafxr on December 26, 2023, 03:03:54 PM

Quote from: wfolarry on December 24, 2023, 04:49:54 AM

Quote from: pauly on December 23, 2023, 02:30:45 PMHi all
Update on this issue - it's no longer an issue, however drinking oil became a problem.
I've been unable to replicate the lack of performance in 4000 ks, and I've tried in numerous conditions.

What did seem to become an issue was oil consumption. It seemed that every few hundred ks, I'd loose another couple of notches on the dipstick. Anyhoo, about 2 weeks ago, I loaded the wife and some luggage, let her know I was going to hammer it a few times, and did exactly that, a number of times over a 600 k ride. The oil consumption has stopped.
So, for those of you that are suffering oil consumption with your m8, and haven't tried aggressively seating your rings, turn off the traction control, and give it a go. YMMV but it seems to have worked for me.

Thanks
Pauly

That doesn't happen. Your rings were seated long before that.

Or not.  In any case doing this now really changes nothing.  Rings are seated or no seated (and never will be) by this state.

I build a high horsepower sportster engine for a lady customer ,she wanted it quickly ready to go on a long trip trough Scandinavie. I rode the bike with Shel rotella 10w40 for the first 400 miles and then changed to the oil to synthetic 20w 50 and let her ride off . She came back after 2000 miles and told me the bike used a lot of oil and had bleu smoke ...rings not seated properly because to early use of  the synthetic oil and not enough riding in miles. Changed the oil again to Shell Rotella and hit the bike for 100 miles ,the hard way , high rpm's and very fast riding with a lot of rpm changes up and down ....the bike has now 7000 miles and runs like hell , the breather tube is completely dry and she runs synthetic oil . Ring seating can be done but you have to know what you are doing .
 

Update - Its burning oil again. The data suggests about 300ml every 4000 Ks at the moment.
I told the dealer its a problem and they told me Harleys instructions on it - IE; "M8 motors are within spec if they use up to 1 litre of oil per 250 Ks." - The dealers hands are tied.

What a crock of 
None of my other cars, bikes or marine vessels have ever used anywhere near that amount of oil unless there was a severe problem.


So - given its a 2023 model - suggestions appreciated. I have re-routed the breathers away from the inlet but asides from that the bike is (motor/exhaust/intake) dead stock.

Thanks
Pauly
Thanks
Pauly

 

I don't call that fit for purpose Pauly, you might have a case under our consumer protection laws?

Hi Hilly13,

I'm in Australia. The government protections here are a front and actually achieve very little for the people. They are more to give people the illusion of protection. "Fit for purpose" is very debatable, particularly with a vehicle that will travel many thousands of ks, as long as you keep putting oil in it!

Thanks
Pauly

Quote from: Hilly13 on September 19, 2024, 10:17:46 PMI don't call that fit for purpose Pauly, you might have a case under our consumer protection laws?

I just did a quick conversion, your oil use converts to about 1/3rd of a quart to 2500 miles. I don't find that to be outrageous, if a little annoying. That puts it at about a quart between oil changes if you go 7500 miles, still not outrageous, almost normal.
Does it do it all the time, or just certain conditions, like a lot of back road lazy riding and also high speed long distance travel?

In that case I miscalculated. It's more than that. And it sure is annoying. When I'm back on my PC, I'll see where I stuffed up.

Quote from: Hossamania on September 20, 2024, 06:15:13 AMI just did a quick conversion, your oil use converts to about 1/3rd of a quart to 2500 miles. I don't find that to be outrageous, if a little annoying. That puts it at about a quart between oil changes if you go 7500 miles, still not outrageous, almost normal.
Does it do it all the time, or just certain conditions, like a lot of back road lazy riding and also high speed long distance travel?

I also don't think 1 litre for every 250 kms is anywhere near normal or acceptable.

Didn't HD have a "1 qt/1000 miles" is a non warranty issue?

I know at one point Ford's was 1 qt/500 miles was acceptable.

Quote from: pauly on September 20, 2024, 05:50:45 AMHi Hilly13,

I'm in Australia. The government protections here are a front and actually achieve very little for the people. They are more to give people the illusion of protection. "Fit for purpose" is very debatable, particularly with a vehicle that will travel many thousands of ks, as long as you keep putting oil in it!

Thanks
Pauly

Quote from: Hilly13 on September 19, 2024, 10:17:46 PMI don't call that fit for purpose Pauly, you might have a case under our consumer protection laws?

I'm in Aussie as well mate, a bloke on the Aussie forum had a go with one of the brizzie HD shops, his was rust, he won in the end, was a long fight and they did the non disclosure clause thing so he couldn't say exactly only that he was happy with the result and will never buy another Harley, haven't heard from him since so I guess he ment it.

I missed a zero! 2500kms.
😊

Quote from: Hossamania on September 20, 2024, 07:23:39 AMI also don't think 1 litre for every 250 kms is anywhere near normal or acceptable.

1 litre for 2500kms isn't terrible, but certainly not great. Especially on a new motor.
As I asked earlier, does yours consume in all disciplines of riding, or only under certain conditions? Town riding, back road  cruising, long distance Hiway travelling?

Hi Hoss,
To me, that would be terrible (to me, 300ml per 2500ks is terrible!). My car doesn't use any oil, nor does my boat, no do my other bikes.
I don't have many changes in riding. It's normally 2 up touring, preferably back roads. We will pick a destination, book the room, and take the long & scenic way there avoiding freeways. A nice ride is good for the soul 😀.

Thanks
Pauly

Quote from: Hossamania on September 22, 2024, 09:54:41 AM1 litre for 2500kms isn't terrible, but certainly not great. Especially on a new motor.
As I asked earlier, does yours consume in all disciplines of riding, or only under certain conditions? Town riding, back road  cruising, long distance Hiway travelling?

Quote from: pauly on September 22, 2024, 05:06:49 PMA nice ride is good for the soul 😀.

You got that Right!

I'm sure confused. Back when I used to have a piston as an ashtray, the reasons an engine was using oil were obvious... bad seal of bore/pistons/rings, smoke out the exhaust, particularly on acceleration - bad valve seals, smoke on deceleration,- an English or American motorcycle, oil on the garage floor (joking!).

Things have changed. My Twinkie never used oil (it must have used some, but it was not detectable between services). These M8 engines are different in some regard, but I don't understand why they should use oil when twincams (on the whole) don't. They are still just a whoppin big v twin, and theoretically, if the bores/pistons/rings have a good seal, and all the little rubber seals are tight, the oil used should not be a problem between services.

What I don't understand, is where is all that oil going? There's no visible smoke, no apparent leaks, and no indication of any other issues.
Would the cat remove all smoke from an engine burning oil? Any other theories? I'm all ears at this stage, and want to learn why M8 engines should use oil, when others should not.

Thanks again
Pauly