HarleyTechTalk

Here's the deal...2019 SG. The owner scored a 2023 CVO 117 with 200 miles on it. Complete with heads. Wants me to put it on his SG with the RS 472 cam blah blah.
Here's the problem I have. Which piston came out of which cylinder was not labeled or kept track of. One of the cylinders shows some signs of wear and minor scuffing...in 200 miles!
Do you think I should just put the pistons/rings in as is or?
I'd like to re-ring but I think a light honing would be needed. Or should I just install it as it came out and take a guess at which piston came out of which cylinder, reposition the rings, and go with it?
Thoughts?

Rings are not worn out in 200.  I'd ball hone and go.

I would hone and replace the rings .

Quote from: hrdtail78 on November 14, 2024, 01:19:48 PMRings are not worn out in 200.  I'd ball hone and go.

That's what I've been leaning towards. They cleaned up better than I thought they would, too. I think I can tell which piston came out of which cylinder by the wear on the skirts.

Quote from: JSD on November 14, 2024, 01:59:21 PMI would hone and replace the rings .

Believe me, this was my first thought too. Mostly because of the piston location issue.

Twin cooled heads on an oil cooled bike?

Edit: brain fade. Was thinking 107" 4.375" stroke engine and had my wires crossed. I even have an article I wrote about the different bore & stroke on our website   

The 117 CVO and 107/114 M8 heads are identical (except for the CVO badge), nothing to gain there.

I know there's nothing to gain really. 3 cu.in. and a loss of .3 compression ratio. It wasn't what we had planned until he found this take off for $200 and sprung it on me.
This was just suppose to be cams in this bike and a full build on his 06 Dyna.
Then he decided to do a full build on this and I started tearing it down for a BB kit til he found this take off engine for $200 and bought it.
He's looking at it as a fresh engine with 200 miles with cams in his cruiser for $200 and his top end WAS in rough shape for 30,000 miles.
It's the same 4.5" stroke and the pin height sure looks the same?


H-D Milwaukee-8 107″ = 3.937″ bore X 4.375″ stroke
H-D Milwaukee-8 114″ = 4.00″ bore X 4.5″ stroke
H-D Milwaukee-8 117″ = 4.075″ bore X 4.5″ stroke

I get it. So does he. I've pointed all this out when he dumped this engine on me 4 days ago. I can make up the compression loss and it will be a stronger engine. He bought this bike used and it was rode hard and put away wet by the previous owner. I'd have to go at his pistons with an air chisel to make a dent in the carbon build up that's been cooked on by a lean condition. I "Potty mouth" you not. 
It's profit sharing time at John Deere but he's young and has a wife and kids and not enough funds to do both the way he wants to and I'm trying to work him and make it the best he can afford to do without ending up in divorce court and make it a reliable bike with a stronger engine and a little more power. He's buying a good tuner for it.  Lord knows I'm not making enough doing it but he's a good kid, and I worked with him at Deere.

The dyna is his toy I get to build the way I want. This is his cruiser.

I'll be pushing for the elusive 120/120 in a 98" with the dyna. :p

Quote from: rigidthumper on November 15, 2024, 06:49:56 AMTwin cooled heads on an oil cooled bike?

Not sure where that came from but...

Quote from: 60Gunner on November 15, 2024, 04:55:42 PM

Quote from: rigidthumper on November 15, 2024, 06:49:56 AMTwin cooled heads on an oil cooled bike?

Not sure where that came from but...

The only 117 CVO in 2023 was a twin cooled unit, and the 2019 SG was an oil cooled unit.

Quote from: rigidthumper on November 15, 2024, 07:16:24 PM

Quote from: 60Gunner on November 15, 2024, 04:55:42 PM

Quote from: rigidthumper on November 15, 2024, 06:49:56 AMTwin cooled heads on an oil cooled bike?

Not sure where that came from but...

The only 117 CVO in 2023 was a twin cooled unit, and the 2019 SG was an oil cooled unit.

I suspect it was actually a new 2022 bought in 23.
I didn't see the ad or talk to the seller and I should've said this but honestly, I didnt expect to anyone to think I wouldn't actually look at this as soon as I saw the engine myself.
22 is stamped on the heads but 23 was also a split year so tbh, I wasn't sure of the year as it really didn't matter enpugh at this point to know.
It's a 117 4.5" stroke oil cooled engine with 200 miles.
All I needed to know.

My plan was a 128 BB  kit at 11.1:1, stock heads and springs and the tts175 cam and tuner til a few days ago after I tore it down.
And I had such plans...

A take out motor for $200  is the serial number ground off?

Quote from: 60Gunner on November 15, 2024, 09:30:47 AMH-D Milwaukee-8 107″ = 3.937″ bore X 4.375″ stroke
H-D Milwaukee-8 114″ = 4.00″ bore X 4.5″ stroke
H-D Milwaukee-8 117″ = 4.075″ bore X 4.5″ stroke

I think an all bore 113 something would be cool.  Boosted to 300 plus would be awesome.

Quote from: calif phil on November 16, 2024, 06:35:24 AMA take out motor for $200  is the serial number ground off?

The guy was asking like $400 or $500 for a stock 117 top end that was sitting around for a year. My guy lowballed him with $200 and he took it. It's not like he hit the jackpot here.

"Here's the deal...2019 SG. The owner scored a 2023 CVO 117 top end with 200 miles on it. Complete with heads. Wants me to put it on his SG with the RS 472 cam blah blah."

Kind of missed two important words in the original post. Or, I'm just confused on what you really have.

My bad. I should've said it was advertised a 2023 but when I posted I hadn't looked at the heads that close to notice the 22 stamped on them and tbh, I wasn't sure if the 23 might have come both ways. My initial attention was on the cylinders/pistons.
The guy had the whole engine but had just sold the cases and took it apart. Completely. Even the TB was separated from the intake. Injectors pulled but in the box. It came in boxes. Everything but the cases and crank.
My question here was about the cylinders/pistons being separated and if I should re-ring.
The rest of this pointless.
I didn't ask what you thought it was or if it woukd fit.
I knew what it was. It was a stock, oil cooled 117 that obviously didn't have "Potty mouth" for miles it.
I really didn't see the significance of anything else as it related to what I DID ask.

So what are your plans for the cylinders, pistons, rings, and heads?

Quote from: Hossamania on November 17, 2024, 04:12:27 AMSo what are your plans for the cylinders, pistons, rings, and heads?

Already installed. The front isn't bolted down yet. I only had one set of headbolts here and had to order one along with oem gaskets. The head gaskets are cometic .030 to get the compression close to the 10.5 of the 114. RS472 cam is on the way.
Not my choice but it is what it is and will be a noticeable improvement. He did listen and buy a good tuner for it.
Hylift Johnson lifters, and a cam plate and oil pump(he had the first pump on an early 19), adjustable pushrods,
I had planned to do a 128 at 11.1, leave the heads stock, and do the TTS175.
His 114 had a bad lifter and why a cam change was the original plan.
I also discovered a loose rocker shaft bolt and his pistons were carboned up enough to cause hotspots and pre_ignition I'm thinking. He had a lean condition and his intake was loose.

It will be a stronger, more reliable engine when I'm done.
This is ugly for 33,000 miles.

Quote from: hrdtail78 on November 16, 2024, 01:28:53 PM

Quote from: 60Gunner on November 15, 2024, 09:30:47 AMH-D Milwaukee-8 107″ = 3.937″ bore X 4.375″ stroke
H-D Milwaukee-8 114″ = 4.00″ bore X 4.5″ stroke
H-D Milwaukee-8 117″ = 4.075″ bore X 4.5″ stroke

I think an all bore 113 something would be cool.  Boosted to 300 plus would be awesome.

I like how you think but i don't think I can talk him into this.
Now the Dyna maybe. I already told him it's going to take a trip to East  St. Louis when it's done. 
The SG will get street tuned.
Got a couple dirt bikes and another quad to do first tho.
Just did a top and bottom of a little KX65 for a doctor's 12 year old kid after they tried replacing the piston on a bad crank and rod bearing and it self destructed in 30 seconds on start up and asked me to fix it.
Now I've got dirt bikes coming in from everyone here.
Lot of money in those things tho.
Those 2 strokes need top ends constantly.

No reason to spend $$ on adjustable pushrods since you have the rocker boxes off?

Quote from: DTTJGlide on November 17, 2024, 11:11:11 PMNo reason to spend $$ on adjustable pushrods since you have the rocker boxes off?

Aftermarket cam may dictate this? Or will stock rods work?

All bolt-in cams have same as stock base circle, I've run both a S&S 475 and am now running a Star 30/30,stock pushrods work great.

Good to know, thank you.

Quote from: DTTJGlide on November 17, 2024, 11:11:11 PMNo reason to spend $$ on adjustable pushrods since you have the rocker boxes off?

That depends if you want to leave the lifter preload at .100 and risk having a noisy top end with no way to remedy it.
No thanks.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for one piece pushrods. In a perfect world, I would have custom length rods made.