HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: mp on June 21, 2011, 03:02:02 PM
Why would they screw around retro-fitting the Twin Cam for water-cooling when it's due to be replaced soon?  If they were smart they'd just go back to the Evo.  All the benefits of water-cooling without the radiator, fan or water.

I would order a new bike tomorrow if I heard they were briniging back the Carbe'd Evos.   Maybe an FXR5 

Quote from: akjeff on June 20, 2011, 09:04:47 PM
Seems like a patent for that system is a waste of money. I doubt the competition will be stealing that idea.

Jeff

You got that right. I'd be ashamed to have people see that lame poor excuse for liquid cooling.
Ron

Quote from: DaleW on June 21, 2011, 12:48:02 PM
Looks as though Harley are trying to retain the look of the existing engine as far as possible, which is only sensible. For all its shortcomings, its a beautiful looking engine, so why ruin a good thing?

Dale

With all due respect, the twin cam is not a beautiful looking engine.   

Quote from: cheetah on June 21, 2011, 07:12:42 AM
It's a concept. Patent your concept and see what you can do with it before someone else comes up with it.
You may never use it, but it is yours.
C

Worked for the touch screen on phones. That glass was patented over 50 years ago.

Quote from: codyshop on June 21, 2011, 09:59:34 PM

Quote from: DaleW on June 21, 2011, 12:48:02 PM
Looks as though Harley are trying to retain the look of the existing engine as far as possible, which is only sensible. For all its shortcomings, its a beautiful looking engine, so why ruin a good thing?

Dale

With all due respect, the twin cam is not a beautiful looking engine.

You may be in the minority on that one.  I know it looks beautiful to me, a step up from the Evo looks wise, much more muscular looking..

"With all due respect, the twin cam is not a beautiful looking engine."

Couldn't agree more!  Ugliest HD engine ever (and I own one)   That bloated cam chest is hideous.
The Pan reigns supreme, followed by the slab sided Shovel, Flatties

Another article: http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/motorcycles/future-harley-davidsons-usher-liquid-cooling-44110/

Quote from: hd06myway on June 22, 2011, 04:38:10 AM

Quote from: codyshop on June 21, 2011, 09:59:34 PM

Quote from: DaleW on June 21, 2011, 12:48:02 PM
Looks as though Harley are trying to retain the look of the existing engine as far as possible, which is only sensible. For all its shortcomings, its a beautiful looking engine, so why ruin a good thing?

Dale

With all due respect, the twin cam is not a beautiful looking engine.

You may be in the minority on that one.  I know it looks beautiful to me, a step up from the Evo looks wise, much more muscular looking..

I think its beautiful.  I think the Evo was beautiful, as was the pan, as was the shovel, etc. etc.  They are pretty much all beautiful engines in one respect or another.  The statement made didn't say it was more beautiful than a pan or a shovel or whatever.
jt

Quote from: Panzer on June 21, 2011, 06:12:43 PM

          And then there is the V-Rod

The Revo is by far the best motor Harley has ever created.They should have put it in a Ultra. But why would harley want to build a dependable 120hp motor when they can give you a 69hp for more money and then have 50% of the buyers invest thousands of more dollars in their bike, just to have maybe 90hp or 100hp. Crazy!!!!

Quote from: PoorUB on June 20, 2011, 08:17:18 PM
I have no issuues with water cooled engines, but HD needs to move the radiators somewhere else, other than the patent shows. I pull the lower fairings off in the spring for mare air flow. I left them on this spring and made it to Arkansas before I pulled them off and shipped 'em home. Stuff radiators in the lowers? Hotter yeat for your legs!

Look at the good side. If you take a long ride with the radiator lowers, you can heat up your lunch while you ride. Like the tacos and burritos go on the left side with the casserole and the hot pastrami can go on the right with a can of chili and a container of hot water for some instant coffee later.

The diagrams say the hot air will be deflected down and to the sides so a big bore might be used for ice and snow clearing !

I think a water-cooled bagger is a great idea. I just don't want to own one that is the first year model. 

Quote from: harborjohn on June 22, 2011, 08:17:29 AM

Quote from: Panzer on June 21, 2011, 06:12:43 PM

          And then there is the V-Rod

The Revo is by far the best motor Harley has ever created.

Porsche, IIRC.

Yup.  Porsche designed, cast in France, machined in Germany...

Quote from: chopper on June 22, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
Yup.  Porsche designed, cast in France, machined in Germany...

Well, at least the clothing line is still American made.     

Quote from: harborjohn on June 22, 2011, 08:17:29 AM

Quote from: Panzer on June 21, 2011, 06:12:43 PM

          And then there is the V-Rod

The Revo is by far the best motor Harley has ever created.They should have put it in a Ultra. But why would harley want to build a dependable 120hp motor when they can give you a 69hp for more money and then have 50% of the buyers invest thousands of more dollars in their bike, just to have maybe 90hp or 100hp. Crazy!!!!

  The reason why the MoCo still sell 10s of thousands of these antiquated slugs every year is because that is exactly what people, me included, want to buy. What would be the point of alienating all of those buyers by dropping the engine that has carried them for over a hundred years.

I am surprised they havent done a Revo Ultra, but only to sell alongside the twin cam, as a complement, not a replacement.

I am surprised they havent done a Revo Ultra, but only to sell alongside the twin cam, as a complement, not a replacement.

I suspect it would be a short lived model.  They would sell a few initially to those who like the idea of water cooling, like that engine, want something different, etc.  But it would shortly become a sales disaster and would be dropped from the lineup after one or two model years. It would be a financial disaster in the long run.  jmo.
jt

Quote from: harleyjt on June 23, 2011, 05:01:17 AM
I am surprised they havent done a Revo Ultra, but only to sell alongside the twin cam, as a complement, not a replacement.

I suspect it would be a short lived model.  They would sell a few initially to those who like the idea of water cooling, like that engine, want something different, etc.  But it would shortly become a sales disaster and would be dropped from the lineup after one or two model years. It would be a financial disaster in the long run.  jmo.
jt

Just to comment on your comment, because I think you make a good point.  I think a lot of the current HD riders, those who were or still keep their Gold Wings in the garage would welcome a water cooled HD.  They don't appreciate the history, the looks, the lifestyle or even understand why there's a deep love and passion for this mortocycle we call a Harley.  They only ponied up for an HD because they got tired of answering the question from people when they said they ride a motorcycle "is it a Harley?"    99 out of 100 people will ask you that question.

The most copied motorcycle on the planet, our old tech slugs, as some like to refer to them.. well, I've always loved Harley's because they epitimized what a mean beautiful machine should look and sound like.  I get real tired of the "too slow" comments, too slow for what? Keeping up with Yamaha R6's..?  Harley's a cruiser, they invented the catagory, their AMERICAN, just like you can get hop up kits on your pony cars, same goes for Harleys, for those who think they need more.  All the metric bike makers shamlessly and sheepishy copied, cowed and bowed to God Harley, so deal with it, you half hearted wanna be HD owners... do us a favour, go back to your metric junk, your boats, your golf carts, your Matell platic hot wheel looking bikes and stay out our hangouts, our parties and our neighborhoods...!  IMO, and it's just that, half the HD owners aren't worthy to own one, they don't love it enough, they don't respect it enough, and they aren't rightchous enough!  Well, I'm glad I got that off my chest... 

There are a few newer riders who probably don't know much about the history of the MoCo. They are welcome just as well.

By the way, I was owing and riding Harley-Davidsons before Harley-Davidsons were "cool". I've owned other machines but I always came back. The other ones don't talk to me like Harleys do.

you half hearted wanna be HD owners... do us a favour, go back to your metric junk, your boats, your golf carts, your Matell platic hot wheel looking bikes and stay out our hangouts, our parties and our neighborhoods...!  IMO, and it's just that, half the HD owners aren't worthy to own one, they don't love it enough, they don't respect it enough, and they aren't rightchous enough!  Well, I'm glad I got that off my chest..

OOOoooo..   You must be one of those REAL bikers.. 

Quote from: chopper on June 23, 2011, 07:17:33 AM
you half hearted wanna be HD owners... do us a favour, go back to your metric junk, your boats, your golf carts, your Matell platic hot wheel looking bikes and stay out our hangouts, our parties and our neighborhoods...!  IMO, and it's just that, half the HD owners aren't worthy to own one, they don't love it enough, they don't respect it enough, and they aren't rightchous enough!  Well, I'm glad I got that off my chest..

OOOoooo..   You must be one of those REAL bikers..

I am what what I am Chopper, passionate about HDs and I don't like people talking trash about them in an HD forum.  Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I won't even go there on the real biker vs not subject, there's definitly different degrees of passion and lifestyles, so be it.  I've seen some of these characters in action, as you probably have, they buy the HD then want to complain and change everything about... screw them. 

Quote from: hd06myway on June 23, 2011, 06:01:05 AM

Quote from: harleyjt on June 23, 2011, 05:01:17 AM
I am surprised they havent done a Revo Ultra, but only to sell alongside the twin cam, as a complement, not a replacement.

I suspect it would be a short lived model.  They would sell a few initially to those who like the idea of water cooling, like that engine, want something different, etc.  But it would shortly become a sales disaster and would be dropped from the lineup after one or two model years. It would be a financial disaster in the long run.  jmo.
jt

Just to comment on your comment, because I think you make a good point.  I think a lot of the current HD riders, those who were or still keep their Gold Wings in the garage would welcome a water cooled HD.  They don't appreciate the history, the looks, the lifestyle or even understand why there's a deep love and passion for this mortocycle we call a Harley.  They only ponied up for an HD because they got tired of answering the question from people when they said they ride a motorcycle "is it a Harley?"    99 out of 100 people will ask you that question.

The most copied motorcycle on the planet, our old tech slugs, as some like to refer to them.. well, I've always loved Harley's because they epitimized what a mean beautiful machine should look and sound like.  I get real tired of the "too slow" comments, too slow for what? Keeping up with Yamaha R6's..?  Harley's a cruiser, they invented the catagory, their AMERICAN, just like you can get hop up kits on your pony cars, same goes for Harleys, for those who think they need more.  All the metric bike makers shamlessly and sheepishy copied, cowed and bowed to God Harley, so deal with it, you half hearted wanna be HD owners... do us a favour, go back to your metric junk, your boats, your golf carts, your Matell platic hot wheel looking bikes and stay out our hangouts, our parties and our neighborhoods...!  IMO, and it's just that, half the HD owners aren't worthy to own one, they don't love it enough, they don't respect it enough, and they aren't rightchous enough!  Well, I'm glad I got that off my chest... 

Do you feel better now? I guess i must be one of those guys. I love love my boats and my corvettes and all my metric dirtbikes. Been riding and racing hondas for 40 years now(i'm still in my forties)I also own  two harleys and put over 20k miles a year on them.I love motorcycles and will keep riding them.

HD and Chopper.... well said,,, thank you!!!

Quote from: harborjohn on June 23, 2011, 08:21:14 AM

Quote from: hd06myway on June 23, 2011, 06:01:05 AM

Quote from: harleyjt on June 23, 2011, 05:01:17 AM
I am surprised they havent done a Revo Ultra, but only to sell alongside the twin cam, as a complement, not a replacement.

I suspect it would be a short lived model.  They would sell a few initially to those who like the idea of water cooling, like that engine, want something different, etc.  But it would shortly become a sales disaster and would be dropped from the lineup after one or two model years. It would be a financial disaster in the long run.  jmo.
jt

Just to comment on your comment, because I think you make a good point.  I think a lot of the current HD riders, those who were or still keep their Gold Wings in the garage would welcome a water cooled HD.  They don't appreciate the history, the looks, the lifestyle or even understand why there's a deep love and passion for this mortocycle we call a Harley.  They only ponied up for an HD because they got tired of answering the question from people when they said they ride a motorcycle "is it a Harley?"    99 out of 100 people will ask you that question.

The most copied motorcycle on the planet, our old tech slugs, as some like to refer to them.. well, I've always loved Harley's because they epitimized what a mean beautiful machine should look and sound like.  I get real tired of the "too slow" comments, too slow for what? Keeping up with Yamaha R6's..?  Harley's a cruiser, they invented the catagory, their AMERICAN, just like you can get hop up kits on your pony cars, same goes for Harleys, for those who think they need more.  All the metric bike makers shamlessly and sheepishy copied, cowed and bowed to God Harley, so deal with it, you half hearted wanna be HD owners... do us a favour, go back to your metric junk, your boats, your golf carts, your Matell platic hot wheel looking bikes and stay out our hangouts, our parties and our neighborhoods...!  IMO, and it's just that, half the HD owners aren't worthy to own one, they don't love it enough, they don't respect it enough, and they aren't rightchous enough!  Well, I'm glad I got that off my chest... 

Do you feel better now? I guess i must be one of those guys. I love love my boats and my corvettes and all my metric dirtbikes. Been riding and racing hondas for 40 years now(i'm still in my forties)I also own  two harleys and put over 20k miles a year on them.I love motorcycles and will keep riding them.

Now that I've had my lunch (anything over 4 hrs makes me ornery), yea, I feel better.  Good for you  , your passionate about and enjoy all your toys.  I have no problem with that.  As for the patent and rumor, I don't think we're going to see this water head out anytime soon, if ever.... until then, we'll just have to tolerate our slow, sluggish, ugly over priced under powered HDs..   

hd - well put.  I couldn't have done better myself. One of the things that really pizzes me off is the one as mentioned above by one of the posters that buys a Harley because its cool then complains all the time about it being slow, being low tech, being this, not being that.  I, like you have a respect for the machine. There is always room for improvements along the way.  As I've said before, I have no problem with EFI and electronic ignition, etc.  But it was done imo, with respect to the originality of the bike.  Yes, the Harley is slower than most any jap bike larger than 500 cc.  So what.  It runs faster than I want to ride it.  I love my Harley.  I rode jap for years because thats what I could afford.  When I was finally able to afford a Harley, I never looked back.  And it would have to be a huge catastrophic event of some nature to cause me to go elsewhere now.
jt