HarleyTechTalk

 In Wyoming on vacation, noticed oil mist coming out the breather, noticed it about 2500 miles ago and been alright till today,checked the oil this morning cold, its in the middle of the add mark. 06 flhx Stock 88 with 203 cams. Not alot just enough to leave spots on the wife's jeans. No oil pressure difference or noise or power difference. Is it time to replace breathers in the rocker boxes when I get home?
Any ideas.
Oh ya lost rear brakes coming down 14a in Wyoming  headed east out of the pass.
Dave

No ideas,wow!

My idea is, that's one way to slick her up.

Did you add oil?  Mine likes 3qts. Not 3.5. I'm guessing you are running pretty hard to keep up with Crow. If I run 3.5 I am fine just normal cruising.  80 plus or some WOT. I'll push it out. Ride it and enjoy it. Replacing umbrella's can't hurt once you get home. I'm sure nothing   
happened. If you did break a ring or something. That is still something you want to find at home. Enjoy yourself, and take care of that slicked up girl. 

Not worried just borred sitting at the hotel. Just found it odd that its sporratic.

Plug the vents in the carb and route new breather hoses externally down and away from the rear tire..

Max.

Don't have plastic breathers in there by chance?  Not supposed to on an 06 but since you have an aftermarket cam, anything is possible if someone picked up an old gasket kit when putting the cam in.  That happened on my 99.  Oil started coming out the tubes this summer.  Replaced with new stamped steel breathers this past weekend.  The screws holding the plastic ones had no torque whatsoever, removed with fingers.  One of them was so loose the foam element was almost out of the breather.  I was keeping oil at the add mark and it was still coming out.

Quote from: smoserx1 on August 09, 2011, 04:04:59 AM
Don't have plastic breathers in there by chance?  Not supposed to on an 06 but since you have an aftermarket cam, anything is possible if someone picked up an old gasket kit when putting the cam in.  That happened on my 99.  Oil started coming out the tubes this summer.  Replaced with new stamped steel breathers this past weekend.  The screws holding the plastic ones had no torque whatsoever, removed with fingers.  One of them was so loose the foam element was almost out of the breather.  I was keeping oil at the add mark and it was still coming out.

Plastic breathers?  Stamped steel breathers?  What particular part are you talking about?  The umbrella or the whole breather assembly under the rocker cover?  Mine are cast aluminum.

The whole assembly.

Original = cast
several years = plastic junk

then back to cast.  about a year ago they went to stamped steel with a denser orange foam element.  Just wondering if some service dept had slipped you in a set of the plastic ones like they did to me.

Quote from: smoserx1 on August 10, 2011, 07:59:06 AM
The whole assembly.

Original = cast
several years = plastic junk

then back to cast.  about a year ago they went to stamped steel with a denser orange foam element.  Just wondering if some service dept had slipped you in a set of the plastic ones like they did to me.

Is the stamped one better than the cast one?

Hey 86,
I'm with Max - To follow EPA regulations, the MoCo had to start venting the crankcase into the air intake.  Not only will this soak through the air filter and drip oil everywhere, but it will decrease performance and create a lot of deposits by spitting motor oil into the combustion chambers.  To give you an idea of what you're losing, when I vented my crankcase away from the intake, I picked up 2% to as much as 8% in BMEP, as shown in the VE cells of my TTS Mastertune software. 
You can just run your oil low, but one thing a lot of guys seem to miss is that if you're running three quarts instead of four, your oil will circulate into the hot spots (about) 25% more often - and run a lot hotter. 
I plugged the holes in my backing plate with JB Weld, and installed a couple of small barbs in the channels that bolt to the heads.  Join the hoses from the barbs with a "T" and run that hose all the way back to the inside of the rear fender.  Zip tie it into place right near the bolt that holds the bumper - completely behind the rear tire, so you don't have to worry about oil on your wheel.  Highly recommended!

Quote from: Nexus9 on August 10, 2011, 11:59:12 AM
Hey 86,
I'm with Max - To follow EPA regulations, the MoCo had to start venting the crankcase into the air intake.  Not only will this soak through the air filter and drip oil everywhere, but it will decrease performance and create a lot of deposits by spitting motor oil into the combustion chambers.  To give you an idea of what you're losing, when I vented my crankcase away from the intake, I picked up 2% to as much as 8% in BMEP, as shown in the VE cells of my TTS Mastertune software. 
You can just run your oil low, but one thing a lot of guys seem to miss is that if you're running three quarts instead of four, your oil will circulate into the hot spots (about) 25% more often - and run a lot hotter. 
I plugged the holes in my backing plate with JB Weld, and installed a couple of small barbs in the channels that bolt to the heads.  Join the hoses from the barbs with a "T" and run that hose all the way back to the inside of the rear fender.  Zip tie it into place right near the bolt that holds the bumper - completely behind the rear tire, so you don't have to worry about oil on your wheel.  Highly recommended!

Nexus,

Do you have any pictures of that set up? I'm interested in the routeing that you took to get to the rear fender What size hose did you use? Back in the day on my shovel, I ran direct to ground right out of the case breather. Evo's I ran back under the swing arm w/small filter on the end. Would like to do the TC but want to keep the routeing as clean as possible.

Klammer

Hey Klammer,
Yeah, I actually took a bunch of photos along the way, but I was so embarrassed at the poor quality (read: blurry) of the pics that I never published the thread.  When I get home tonight (I'm goofin off at work now), I'll add a post to this thread with the bad photos.

Jon

Okay, here's my project.  Again, I have to apologize for the photos - you would think that a guy who could take his motor apart blindfolded would know how to run a camera....  but N-O-O-O-O....   

The goal was to keep the oil out of the combustion chamber and off my girfriend's boot, but I didn't envision brass plumbing as enhancing the look of my bike, so goal number two was to make this job disappear as much as possible.

1. Remove the backing plate and fill the holes with JB Weld.

2. Trim off half the barb on one end of a couple of brass 1/4" twin-barb splicers (Home Depot).  Drill holes in the inlet channels of the backing plate and use JB Weld to cement the barbs in place.  Immediately check to be sure the end of the barb is not projecting into the channel - the hollow banjo bolt has to go there.  Let that set up overnight to harden completely.

3. Attach a black nylon 1/4" "T" to the end of a 1/4" fuel line (I like the idea of a fuel line because it is solvent-proof).  I wouldn't suggest reinforced fuel line, as there will be no pressure in this hose, and the reinforced hose is thicker.  Thinner is better.  Note that we are attaching the long hose to one "side" of the T, not the "bottom".  This will help minimize the pressure from each cylinder pushing on the other, as they would if they were diametrically opposed (180 degrees apart) AND it makes a better angle of attachment. 

4. There was an existing hole in my frame behind and to the left of the rear cylinder, but there was not an exit hole on the ECM/battery side.  Remove the star ground and drill a hole in the frame on that side.  As you get a bite with the bit, try to angle the hole toward the front.  I used a file to smoth off the edges and continue the forward angle after drilling.

5. Run your hose over the top of the cylinders, using whatever hose clips you can attach or find up there to keep the vent hose off the top of the motor.  Then run the hose down the left side of the rear frame rail under the seat.  We want to run the hose down the left rear fender support bracket, but to do that, we need to:

6. Trim a crescent out of the left rear frame cover.  Now you've got a nice slot for that hose to drop down into, invisible.

7. At the bottom, curve the hose under the rear fender and attach with zip ties.  Now all you can see is the zip ties, and if you have clear zip ties, you can even improve on my design. 

8. How's your backing plate doing...?  Attach that, cut a couple pieces of 1/4" hose to the distance of the T and connect.

8. As you can see in the photo from under the fender, the end of the vent is at the farthest rearward point on the motorcycle, and several inches rearward of the tire. 

With the project all done, all the black hose just disappears out of view - no brass fittings to announce it's existence.    My motor's happy, my girlfriend's happy, I'm happy.   

More photos in the next post:

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Here's the rest of the pics: (HTT only allows so many per post)

Probably one of the best minor detail jobs I ever did on the bike after the big motor job.  It was either this or maxi-pads for my air filter.     The second best minor detail job I did after the motor was the 30 tooth drive pulley.  But that's another story...

Jon

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See that's what's odd came across Nebraska & Kansas 80 to 85 MPH, oil level the same and not a drop. Why intermittent.   

86, I don't know this for sure (never actually tested it) but I would say that crankcase venting is more severe at high rpm/ high kPa (i.e., passing cars on a back road)- I don't think steady state throttle at 3,000 rpm kicks a lot of oil out of the crankcase.  Anybody else have any real experience with this?

Jon

QuoteIs the stamped one better than the cast one?

Don't know about that.  I never had any problem with oil in the AC till about a month ago.  But here is a little history.  I have a 99, and many of those experienced failures of the rear outer cam bearing, mine included.  mine was fixed under a 50000 miles goodwill policy type warranty, and evidently the service kit had the composite plastic breathers.  They stayed on my engine for 130000 miles till just last weekend.  When I took them out all the bolts holding them in were totally loose, and the one in front had risen up so much the foal element was almost out of the breather.  That rocker assembly area was also flooded with oil was.  There was oil tracking down the backing plate for my AC as well as oil in the carburetor throat.  I was also adding more oil between changes that I had.

Now here is the funny thing.  When I had this cam bearing thins fixed long ago my bike began using just a little oil afterwards.  The oil consumption went from nothing discernible to maybe half a quart between changes.  It did this within about 10000 miles after the repairs and then it never got any worse.  I figured it was from residual swarf from the bearing failure doing its damage, but maybe it was from these new plastic breathers allowing carryover into the intake.

I do know the new breathers I installed appear to have solved the oil carryover issue.  It has quit dripping out the AC, and I see no more oil tracking down the backing plate or in the intake of the carburetor.  Time will tell if the oil consumption changes, but my engine now had 164000 miles on it, so it has to have significant wear on it, and I do expect to have some oil consumption.

Nexus,

Thanks for the pictures.

Klammer

Hey 86:
You said you lost rear brakes coming down from a pass? Was it high elevation? A friend and I both have 05 FLHTI's and we both have lost our rear brakes while going through diffferent passes in Northern Ca. I think the elevation does it, because I'm talking full to the stops with absolutely no brakes at all. Someone sugggested trying Motul High temp (?) brake fluid.
Mike

Yeah, let's get back to that...  what did you find was the cause of the brakes going south?

Jon

A dirty air filter will cause the oil mist. If it's washable wash it (Simple Green on the inside Rinse with warm water (inside to outside, Dry from inside out (with a hair dryer if you're on the road). If it's not washable, replace it.

Nexus 9, how did you seal the ends of the bolts which hold the backing plate to the heads, so that the oil mist only routes out the barbed fittings in the backing plate standoffs? I don't have the set-up in front of me now, but I will be doing this mod and I'm trying to picture it. It's a 2011 Screamin' Eagle backing plate. I imagine you eliminate altogether the 2 rubber plugs with the formed hoses that aim the mist into the throttlebody throat.
Thanks!

The bolts are banjo bolts that come supplied with o-rings - so they are sealed from the start.  The only difference is that we are venting the oil out the brass barbs instead of the original holes that went to the air filter.

Jon

If you want to run the breathers to the ground you can start with this kit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Thru-The-Head-Crankcase-Breather-Kit-4-Harley-Twin-Cams-/110728710341?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c7f208c5

The connecting tube between the heads is from an Evo motor if you can find one you don't need the whole kit. Just plug the holes in the back of your air cleaner and get-ur-done.

After that you can use a chrome 5/16 under sink water supply line from the hardware store with some short rubber hose and worm drive clamps to get to the bottom of the bike. The line can be bent quite easily.Attach a small K&N Filter to the bottom and you are good to go. Spark plug boot makes the jump to the K&N filter.
Done neat and clean no one will even notice since the chrome tube fits right in.

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I'd leave the KnN off the end of the hose.. They only collect the mist and drip..
Max