HarleyTechTalk

Have seen in the past a magnet wrap around filter, just saw a Magnet in side inlet of a Oil Filter. It said It worked better..ANY COMMENTS, or anybody use this way ?

Wouldn't the filter trap the particles anyway? That's why there is a magnet on your drain plug. To keep the metal out of the system.

I guess the more the merryer ??

By the time a magnet shows steel the motor has damage already. Plus there are many non steel parts to break before any steel would show on a magnet. I say just another feel good item.

Quote from: Deweysheads on November 24, 2011, 12:09:26 PM
By the time a magnet shows steel the motor has damage already. Plus there are many non steel parts to break before any steel would show on a magnet. I say just another feel good item.

Yes Deweysheads

It feels good that the the metal debris sit on the magnet instead of
get stuck in roller or ball bearings,,

Naturally there is a reason for magnet plugs in tranny and primary
and in S&S engine case,

alu and brass debris can not hurt the bearings in the same way as iron debris

so magnets is always a very good thing

Myself have a magnet outside the inlet hose that stop iron to get in the pump.

I prefer ironparticles on the magnet instead for in the bearings

On a new S&S engine after break in,, the magnet is full of iron metals

it is normal and it is temporary..

So Deweysheads it feels good with magnets in a more engineering thinking

And Sixspeed according to you,,every S&S is damaged because there is alot
of metals on the magnet,,after break in ,,, read S&S instruction it confirm my thinking.


Best Regards
TheSwede

Sure the steel is on the magnet but from a more common sense type thinking don't you think the metal has reached the bearing as well or has this magnet captured all the metal and protected the bearings?
Honest question not trying to harass you.

I believe the magnet couldn't hurt. I also feel the magnet in filter is better than magnet on drain plug..

All the metals on the magnet can not reach the bearings
without magnet,,metals reach the bearing soon or later,,
therefore magnets is a very good precaution
Naturally metals can reach the bearings before magnet
but not after,,

Engineering people from day one,, use magnet in engines..
naturally for this reason

Best Regards
TheSwede

Quote from: phatbob on November 24, 2011, 10:07:58 AM
Wouldn't the filter trap the particles anyway? That's why there is a magnet on your drain plug. To keep the metal out of the system.

I read the article and said magnets can capture as small as 1 micron particles. Harley filter is a 5 micron nominal filter...

My thought is the magnet is more of a warning device, than a preventative device. If it's on the magnet, then it's most likely already circulated through the engine, at least to some degree. Kind of like a "chip detect" warning in a helicopter. It's not there to catch the chips, it's there to say "land this sucker pronto, as something is wrong!". Not saying it's a bad idea, but it's not a panacea either. JMO.

Jeff

Quote from: akjeff on November 24, 2011, 07:31:31 PM
My thought is the magnet is more of a warning device, than a preventative device. If it's on the magnet, then it's most likely already circulated through the engine, at least to some degree. Kind of like a "chip detect" warning in a helicopter. It's not there to catch the chips, it's there to say "land this sucker pronto, as something is wrong!". Not saying it's a bad idea, but it's not a panacea either. JMO.

Jeff

Check out this site that I got... Check out the video's    www.drainplugmagnets.com         

Quote from: Deweysheads on November 24, 2011, 12:09:26 PM
By the time a magnet shows steel the motor has damage already.

Duh…
Most of the metal found on magnets for a motor comes naturally from the wearing of the piston rings and the cylinder walls…  So, if you pull say the oil plug and find metal particles it's NORMAL.

Quote from: TheSwede on November 24, 2011, 03:55:54 PM
All the metals on the magnet can not reach the bearings
without magnet,,metals reach the bearing soon or later,,
therefore magnets is a very good precaution
Naturally metals can reach the bearings before magnet
but not after,,

Engineering people from day one,, use magnet in engines..
naturally for this reason

Best Regards
TheSwede

An inexpensive magnet works just as good as a high priced one… the stronger magnetic field the better

Quote from: phatbob on November 24, 2011, 10:07:58 AM
Wouldn't the filter trap the particles anyway? That's why there is a magnet on your drain plug. To keep the metal out of the system.

The magnet on your plug is not necessarily for iron particle removal. It's far too small and it's location/size/strength limits it contact with oil to call it a removal system. It is there as an inspection or engine health indicator. As you change your oil each time you can compare the amount of iron/steel that is stuck to the magnet. This will give you some indication if something is starting to wear in your engine.

Quote from: limitedlou on November 24, 2011, 03:07:16 PM
I believe the magnet couldn't hurt. I also feel the magnet in filter is better than magnet on drain plug..

Seems like the drain plug one would be better. It picks up ferrous material before it can enter the pump. At the filter it's already too late. Been through the pump..

QuoteMyself have a magnet outside the inlet hose that stop iron to get in the pump.

So how do you clean the captured metal up??  What happens if the magnet falls off?  Does what is inside the hose get into the pump?

Quote from: Sixspeed on November 24, 2011, 12:47:27 PM

Quote from: Deweysheads on November 24, 2011, 12:09:26 PM
By the time a magnet shows steel the motor has damage already. Plus there are many non steel parts to break before any steel would show on a magnet. I say just another feel good item.

I would disagree.. There is a bunch of swarf generated from bearing cages, chain link stampings, gear faces, cylinder finish (tho this is less with a good plateau)  that is easy to capture with a magnet...



Max

Quote from: limitedlou on November 25, 2011, 06:48:25 AM

Quote from: akjeff on November 24, 2011, 07:31:31 PM
My thought is the magnet is more of a warning device, than a preventative device. If it's on the magnet, then it's most likely already circulated through the engine, at least to some degree. Kind of like a "chip detect" warning in a helicopter. It's not there to catch the chips, it's there to say "land this sucker pronto, as something is wrong!". Not saying it's a bad idea, but it's not a panacea either. JMO.

Jeff

Check out this sit that I got... Check out the video's    www.drainplugmagnets.com         

Great site, worth checking out, Thinking about installing some new magnets myself. Jeff, Thanks for the info. Duff.

So the concensis is magnets ++
With that said is the magnet placement in the oil filter an effective placement? What about the oil that goes over bypass and straight back to the motor assuming the filter is equipped wih a differential bypass valve, some are not the OEM is.

All good points about the bypass and so is the info about stuff going through the pump, but contaminates are going to be created in different parts of an engine and the Harley oil pump is really two pumps in one(pressure/scavenge).

The key is to keep contaminates from going through over and over again by using a high quality oil filter and with the use of magnets.  TheSwede pointed this out.

Magnets are directly affected by temperature and can actually be de-magnetized.  The oil plug magnets are small to fit, but also because magnets that have a greater temperature range cost more $$$$.

Not sure I would be using throw-away magnets in my oil filter (attached to the outside yes).  If they’re made to be reusable, they will need to work in the high temperatures ($$) and they need to be stronger magnets (20-30 pounds plus pull) being in a high oil flow area and not sure you could pull 20#+ magnets back out?

JMO

I bought some freaky strong rare earth magnets off ebay, shaped like 1/2" washers.  I put them on my truck (even though the drain plug magnet is always nearly clean) and my bikes that have oil filter cans.  I've never opened up a filter to see if it has any sludge stuck to the inside but on one bike with the filter pointed down - I swear it helps trigger street lights for me . 

Are you saying you stick a magnet onto the outside of the oil filter housing?  Doesn't the metal in the housing substantially short-circuit the magnetic flux, making the magnet anywhere from largely to almost totally ineffective for doing what you want it to do inside the can?

The magnet eguiped filters I've seen has the magnet in the center on the return side of the filter media so any metal on it has pasted the filter

Since we are theoryizing here, think about this. The drain plug magnets are all located at the lowest point in the oil pan and primary. Isn't it possible they do their work after the engine is off and the oil settles and the 'heavy metals' sink to the bottom? If true, the sideways oil filter magnet would not be very useful.

I put the magnet on the outside of the can.  My theory is it turns the entire can into a big particle-attracting magnetized oil filter.  I have to tell you that neodymium magnets really are freaky freakin strong.  I put the magnet on the bottom of my Harley filter (for like you said when stuff sinks) and to keep it out of sight.

K&P filters have a little magnet built in.

Just get some real strong washer-shaped magnets and hang them into the oil bag on a wire.  In fact, try to hang 'em so the oil return feeds onto them.  Let us know how it works out, okay?   

Pilgrim