HarleyTechTalk

I was discussing this with a Friend today.  Any thoughts on using that exhaust wrap on the header pipes?   

I think it is gay and the sure sign of a poser.

Form follows function, and other than absorbing moisture and looking frayed, it doesn't do anything for the performance of a street harley.

Quote from: turboprop on December 19, 2011, 04:52:22 PM
I think it is gay and the sure sign of a poser.

Form follows function, and other than absorbing moisture and looking frayed, it doesn't do anything for the performance of a street harley.

except keep the heat in the pipe and evacuate the exhaust charge quicker.

plus it hides the ground welds on garage built pipes that i didn't feel like making heat shields for.........kinda like this.

Do you really believe that in a Harley street application that that wrap provides measurable improvements in power, torque or efficiency in any v-twin? I am serious, not being smart here. In the dyno section there are more debates into most minutia of aspects of various builds. Heck, there is a discussion on lifters that has gone on for countless pages. I suspect that id there was anything to be had from exhaust wrap it would have been exposed by now in the dyno section. But it hasn't.

I think "gay" is a bit harsh - there are valid reasons for using the wrap - I'm not a big one for it myself, but I also don't index spark plugs, have the best, low resistance plug wires, iridium plugs, etc.  But every little bit helps.  It's a cummulative thing.  Then there's the asthetics - I used it solely because I ruined my pipes with an oil leak (actually an  oil disaster).  In theory, holding the heat in the pipe, increases exhaust velocity, causing improved cylinder evacuation.   It's mostly used on turbos cause it does work. Can argue all day if it's worth it.  But "gay"?  "poser"?  Not really.
Dog

I know plenty of guys who have their pipes wrapped for various reasons, myself included, and nobody is gay and nobody is a poser.  In my case I had to indent the rear pipe to fit under the trans because of the stroker and to cover weld/grind marks. 
yeah I'd prefer not to have the wrap but until I get new pipes made I don't want my machine to look like a rat. Rats (bikes, not people) are ok if thats your thing but gay, poser... nah.

Alright Dog, I'll concede that gay might not be the best term if you'll concede that thus stuff is purely cosmetics as it pertains to street harleys. -Ed

Quote from: turboprop on December 19, 2011, 06:39:04 PM
Do you really believe that in a Harley street application that that wrap provides measurable improvements in power, torque or efficiency in any v-twin? I am serious, not being smart here. In the dyno section there are more debates into most minutia of aspects of various builds. Heck, there is a discussion on lifters that has gone on for countless pages. I suspect that id there was anything to be had from exhaust wrap it would have been exposed by now in the dyno section. But it hasn't.

i'm one of the few that don't care about the almighty "torque dip" that drag pipes show on the dyno either, cause i tuned mine and they work........can i feel the difference with wrap? no, but i index my 4 plugs too........the culmination of "tricks" add up as shoveldog said.

a dyno is merely a TOOL....for tuning and trying different combos...and they can lie too...i never had a motor on the dyno yet.....and i sure don't ride one.

don't put too much weight on them things anyway. lots of folks are good and honest....lots of folks are looking for the top numbers they can get, anyway they can get them to lure in customers.........sometimes i tune my sled NEXT to a guy with a dyno sheet  .

Quote from: shovelbill on December 19, 2011, 07:23:55 PMa dyno is merely a TOOL....for tuning and trying different combos...and they can lie too...i never had a motor on the dyno yet.....and i sure don't ride one.

Bill, I own a dyno, but tend to stay out of the great dyno debates. I agree with you that the dyno is a measuring tool. I am not in the motorcycle business, I am actually an engineer posing as a sales guy by day. My dyno is a hobby and is still sort of fun and exciting to me. It is not uncommon for me and my buddies to come home from the bars and run bikes.

Anyways, I have done a bunch of back to back runs looking for all the little 'tidbits' of power. Went so far as to removing rotors and stators, lightening ring gears, removing brake pads, indexing plugs, wrapping pipes, storing gas in the refrigerator until right before a run, compared belt to chain primary drive, with fluids vs low or no fluids, etc. I have done this on many evo and shovels, and have never been able to see any repeatable increase on the measuring tool (dyno) from wrapped pipes. -Ed

On both my SE twinkie and my S&S motors I had the pipes wrapped under the heatshields just to keep my legs from cooking. The heat difference was night and day! A little performance, maybe, but I couldn't tell. Didn't change how it ran, or how it sounded, didn't really change how it looked. It was UNDER the heatshields. Both my wife and I could feel the difference though on a 100 degree day!
EASY

and i believe you......i've said many times that i couldn't tell from my seat how MUCH oil is in my case "killing" my hp...pinion restrictors and oitside returns.........do dual plugs show on a dyno........not that i've heard, but i think they make ANY hemi style head run "better" and last longer......especially hi dome/high compression......like mine


like i said...i ride my bikes and i twist that throttle any chance i get.....i'm a backyard wrench that likes to go pretty quick.....these are frukkin tractor motors that make me smile.......build 'em, break 'em.....build 'em better.

right now mines suckin oil from both returns because i shaved too much off my jugs. she's wounded......and THAT i can feel. when i change barrels and re tune to a lower CR i will bring it to a dyno. there were no mainstream dynos 25 years ago either.

would inside/out coated pipes show on a dyno?

where's your dyno  ? i will run this on one one day......to cure some curiosity for myself. she's 80", but lots of guys are impressed with how she struts her stuff..........for an "old shovel" of course.

and easy just answered the origional poster pretty directly too about heat.........perhaps we hijacked the thread? some folks like the way wrap looks......too.

Well I am not going to debate the merits of exhaust wrap in terms of performance or cosmetics. We all do some funny stuff- exhaust wrap, gremlin bells, fringe on the levers and grips, chubby bars, conchos, dual plugs, gold plated speaker wires, dino oil, not-dino oil, nitrogen in the tires, what else? Some of it is supposed to look good, some of it is supposed to make you go faster, it all does something I guess. I am not a fan of much of it at all of it but hell, I used to have a brass doorknob bolted on the fender where the p-pad used to be. And a brass pig sailing point on the front fender. And a bottle opener mounted on my softail. Looked great and made me go lots faster, fer sure...

You wanna run some exhaust wrap? Your call, do it for what ever reason motivates you. Your bike, your life, you don't answer to none of us, run what ever you want.

Except one of them silly ass fake kickers. Only a butt pirate poser would run one of those.

covers my bad chrome and matches my handlebar wrap which covers my bad chrome.
Tough living by the beach.
dave

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Guess I opened a debate with this one?   

I know I F-uped & dropped a synthetic polishing rag (don't ask why it was by the bike  --- I usually always use cotton rags) it fell on HOT rear exhaust header pipe and I had to scrape it off cause it melted on like powder coat.  Wrap would cover the marks the razor blade made (I was careful and tried everything from Acetone, to carb & brake cleaner to remove first) and can't polish back out. 

Besides that, the heat here in NOLA gets stiffling in the Summer, so if it helps reduce that on my right leg - thats a plus too when putting around the Quarter...?  Until I later replace the pipes with something better.... 

Thanks for all the feedback.  I enjoy hearing from other experience (and yes I'm a grey beard too so have some of my own to share,) but you Guys come through with some good ideas and feedback, thanks. 

QuoteExcept one of them silly ass fake kickers. Only a butt pirate poser would run one of those.

Hey now, I have a real kicker but my ignition renders it basically useless.  Poser I'll take but not Butt Pirate! 

@shovelbill - my dyno is in Fayetteville, NC. You are welcome to run your bike as often as you want on my machine. I have seen A-B comparison runs of single/dual plug heads on medium compression shovels. Both configurations were optimized before comparison. There is a repeatable HP and TQ increase.

We never saw any gains on our AHDRA Mod Class bike with the heat wrap, and trust me, if it showed up, it would've on the bike, as long as the extra weight, didn't out-weigh the gain.
Scott

   My pipes are wrapped, I'm not gay, never been called a poser...  Just thoght I'd wrap 'em because them old pipes were all blued & lookin like crap..  I guess I noticed a little difference in the heat I felt off the pipes, noted no difference in performance,  & got alot of good feedback from all who cared to comment on it..  Only downfall I've had with the wrap is I've had to replace the front pipe wrap due to it ripping when I've scraped my pipe on right hand turns..

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My thoughts are that it does a great job of heat protection and looks better than rusty pipe and weld seams.  As far as gay and poser, there are plenty of other factors that encompass that, pipe wrap isn't one of them in my opinion.
If applied properly the wrap will not fray or absorb moisture.

Lew 

Hey Bill I thought Milton had a Dyno over at Halo. Guess not. I'll be up this week, give you a call.

Quote from: Rudy on December 20, 2011, 08:21:24 AM
Hey Bill I thought Milton had a Dyno over at Halo. Guess not. I'll be up this week, give you a call.

not yet.....he's talking about one now though, none in queens.

we can go for a ride to get some pizza.......REAL pizza too........

and this time my bike won't be in the back of your truck......you really went out your way for me.......and i'll not forget.

 I wont have a bike with me but we can sure go for pizza. only NYC has the real deal. This slop down here don't cut it.

Re: the pick up...thats what friends are for. You would do it for me. No sweat bro.  lets hook up. ill call you when I get in.

I like NY Pizza like the next Guy - But next time you Guys hit Chicago - you got to try Deep Dish Stuffed Pizza!   

Its like an apple pie but with pizza stuff; its stuffed inside and then topped.  Even this BIG ol'Boy born & raised in Chicago (now in NOLA - tired of the cold  ) could only eat 2 to 3 pieces on a good night.  It tastes Great and IS filling!   

Have a Great Day.

DJ Baar

QuoteDeep Dish Stuffed Pizza!

it's breakfast time here for me and now i'm hungry.......

QuoteI wont have a bike with me but we can sure go for pizza.

any way you like...............but, you forget i have 2 sleds?

sounds very much like a plan....