HarleyTechTalk

I have been running 2 Jagg vertical coolers (one on each side, same application woods uses) on my 03 Dyna FXDX for 2 years. They are in series with a bypass valve on each cooler. This is a 124 motor with 220 CCP and I have had zero problems with this setup. I bypass the 2nd cooler until the temp reaches over 90, then open the 2nd cooler.   

I know how to plumb in series but I am lost as to how to  plumb in parralel .  Could someone plese explain.?  Thanks Doc

Ken, check out the picture of the top clamp, once installed it won't move a micron. Rotating between the two positions does not require re-routing the oil lines.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories_Motorcycle-Parts-Accessories__CHROME-BILLET-OIL-COOLER-2-COOL-FOR-HARLEY-W-CLAMPS_W0QQitemZ120334119976QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadiZ2863QQddiZ2811QQadnZMotorcycleQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item120334119976&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Hey I've seen that cooler before...except it was on a white RK 

The sykes is a nice piece for sure.

I am wondering what hose and fittings would be used to support a "parallel" installation. I know how to do it (parallel VS series) but I am wondering how to supply the coolers without taking away from a critical motor lubrication circuit. Would a simple Y in the out line from a typical oil filter adapter work or would it be better to tap the oil supply at another spot? Wouldn't it be best to return to tank with a metered orifice rather than back in the closed loop scheme we typically see?
I am working with hydraulics all the time so this is a little hard for me to understand and also have experiences with good automotive oiling systems so that further has skewed my thoughts. Maybe I am making a simple solution more complex.

Don,
Some thoughts (some mine, some from other sources) on this:

Parallel the coolers from the filter/bypass adapter, best place to do it. A simple low restriction "Y" or "T" is fine, IMO.

While there is not a lot of "real estate" on a bike, most dry sump applications do not cool scavenged oil. I'm sure that there are some reasons I haven't thought of, but the most obvious one that comes to mind is allowing the path to the tank from the engine to act as a heat sink and help to cool the oil and thus reduce the load on the cooler(s). Some may argue that the cooler works better with a larger temp delta ... I'm not gonna go there.

Let the flood begin ... spillway gates are open :>)

Heat transfer in a parallel arrangement is more efficient as the heat transfer from oil to air is proportional to the temp difference. In a paralle arrangment both cooler see the same high inlet temp.

 

You went "there". I was gonna leave that one alone.

Oh "Potty mouth", crossed the border.

Dang!  Those are a lot prettier than my Jagg coolers.  I can certainly see how they wouldn't move once set into position.  They'd work for sure with lower fairings.  I wonder if they're as effective as the Jagg coolers that have multi-paths with thin walls and internal turbulators. 

Quote from: PanHeadRed on February 14, 2009, 05:56:34 AM
Ken, check out the picture of the top clamp, once installed it won't move a micron. Rotating between the two positions does not require re-routing the oil lines.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories_Motorcycle-Parts-Accessories__CHROME-BILLET-OIL-COOLER-2-COOL-FOR-HARLEY-W-CLAMPS_W0QQitemZ120334119976QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadiZ2863QQddiZ2811QQadnZMotorcycleQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item120334119976&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Here's a simple diagram of connecting two coolers in parallel and a picture of the coolers installed on my Ultra. 
In the picture, the engine-heated oil (red) flows to a "T" and then to the inlets of each cooler.  The outlets of each cooler are connected to another "T" where a tube carries the cooled oil back to the engine.  Please excuse my Microsoft Paint artwork.



And here it is in practice.  The coolers have to be angled forward so that the spigots on bottoms don't rub against the lower fairings. 



If it weren't for the lower fairings, I'd have kept the dual coolers on for the duration.  They really did a good job here in Dallas traffic and for extended parking lot training exercises.   It didn't take much relative wind through the coolers to make a significant difference in engine oil temperature. 

Ken

Thanks Ken. Now I have it.  Doc.

Ken I wanted to thank you again for taking the time to respond to my ? You and others are what makes this board the best tech board on the net.  Thank You Very Much!!!     Doc

The Bob Woods setup in series

The Woods set up look's really nice but aren't we back to the series versus parallel ? I can see where hooking up in parallel would be less restsictive but ?  ,

Restrictive ,sorry,can't spell this morning

I am bringing this topic back to the top to get more input. I have a 09 FLTRSE 3  110".  I have tried the HD cooler that comes stock with the bike, outside temps 80s. oil pan temps 260s. I tried the engine guard in parralle with the HD cooler and get 230*, the pluming looked bad on the bike and I still would like to see 210 to 220* in the pan. Tinking maybe adding the Jag 10 row in parralle with the hd cooler as I believe this may get the pan temp down to 210*.  Any thoughts from anyone that has tried this. Trying to keep the cost down thats why I am still useing the hd cooler and adapter.  Thanks Doc

Here is one I am running now. It is the 10 row down low oil cooler that goes up in series to a Spurgin Badboy (not sure if this company even exists anymore) heat sink oil cooler. It is okay, but temps still get in the HIGH 200s. The ONLY reason I went with this Spurgin unit is because it clears the lowers and does not rotate with vibration. I was unaware of the Eastern Performance unit.



Having said all that, I am probably going to pull the Spurgin and go back to the crashbar set up in series behind the 10 row. The bike is already plumbed for that as I ran that set up several years ago. In all of these set ups, I found that the crashbar did the best to lower the temps. It kept them in the reasonable 240s in Las Vegas traffic in the summer and quickly dropped them on the open road. In fact the crash bar got so hot disapating heat that it melted the paint and some of the plastic on the lower fairings. So I'll probably wrap those contact areas when I do it.

Thanks for the reply, was thinking to reduce the plumbing maybe just run the engine gaurd cooler also to get less restriction on the oil pump. Have you tryed just the engine gaurd cooler and what temps did you see on hot days. I used just the engine guard cooler set up on a 10to1  95" motor and it would keep my temps on the 220s.  Thanks Doc

Quote from: Paniolo on April 20, 2009, 06:58:59 AM
Here is one I am running now. It is the 10 row down low oil cooler that goes up in series to a Spurgin Badboy (not sure if this company even exists anymore) heat sink oil cooler. It is okay, but temps still get in the HIGH 200s. The ONLY reason I went with this Spurgin unit is because it clears the lowers and does not rotate with vibration. I was unaware of the Eastern Performance unit.

Spugin Oil Coolers still exsist there in Las Vegas NV... Rita took over the reins after her husband died... I have 2 of there Polished Coolers on my 04 Road Glide... They work awesome...

I mounted the Spurgin Oil Coolers on the engine guard and my lowers still fit without any problems... The coolers are in unrestricted air out on the engine guard...

Quote from: ViennaHog on February 14, 2009, 06:55:58 AM
Heat transfer in a parallel arrangement is more efficient as the heat transfer from oil to air is proportional to the temp difference. In a parallel arrangement both cooler see the same high inlet temp.

Hmmmm so let me get this straight.  Just for argument sake... say each cooler has a 15 degree temp drop.  In parallel... same temps in, same temps out for both coolers ... that would be 15 degree drop... total.  In series, it would drop 15 then another 15 for 30 degree total.  I know that's an illogical approach to logic, but it does have some merit... In parallel, the oil is flowing slower so there would be more of a drop than the 15... but not 30...

And being more restrictive in series than parallel does have merit for these new fangled TC oil systems where the coolers are before engine rather than in scavenge side.   For any system, it would put a higher demand on pump, but I'd much rather have that on scavenge side than engine feed side......

I mounted the Spurgin Oil Coolers on the engine guard and my lowers still fit without any problems... The coolers are in unrestricted air out on the engine guard...


Do you have any pics of your set up?

Ken,
Did you plumb it like that per the manufacturer's instructions? The only reason I ask, is that I was taught as a young Steamfitter apprentice to never "bullhead" a tee when plumbing for any type of liquid. According to what we were taught, it should really be plumbed like my really bad Microsoft Paint drawing below. Of course, if the manufacturer says to plumb it like you did, I'd just stay with what you have. But if they didn't, you may want to consider changing it. What happens (according to our training) is that the liquid will "short circuit" and possibly even alternate between coolers. 

Not trying to stir the pot here at all, just sharing information that may be helpful to you. The installation looks great.

There weren't any manufacturer's instructions.  I just did it on my own.  I do know that "bullhead" T's can cause liquids (or gases) to choose their own path, but the oil flows at such a slow speed that I didn't think it was of any consequence.  I assumed that both coolers have about the same resistance to the oil flow and it didn't matter if they weren't perfectly flow-balanced. 
I tried both ways, but the tubing didn't work out in the space provided very well when plumbed as you drew. 
Y's would have been better if it mattered. 

Ken could you make that image a bit larger my 42 inch plasma screen still has a few feet left to fill up.....

Oil cooler from HD worked great on the 124

Probably put one on the RG

I wonder about HD's mounting them in front of hte regulator and inbetween the rails of the frame,

Seems the front tire would block air flow to some extent to the lower mount and the oil cooler it'self would
slow the air down going to the front of the motor on the softail mounts even heat it up...

Hanging them out in the breeze is probably better... ugly but better..