HarleyTechTalk

Getting ready to upgrade swing arm on a 01 RK and want to know if there is any benefit in installing zerk fittings to grease the spherical bearings and bushings. I am looking at CCE upgrade kit.

Just because nobody answered you I will: My Opinion for what it is worth:

Any time you can get grease into an area that can need it,,,, It's A good thing.

signed....BUBBIE

Thought about that 1 when I had mine aprt, did'nt do it, wish I had taken the time to install a zert.

What are the advantages to installing a CCE kit? What is it?

The CCE (Custom Cycle Engineering) kit is one of several ways to convert to a later year (07) swingarm. Tru-track and Sta-Bo are two others. CCE retains the spherical bearings and from my research the spherical bearings seem to be a solid setup. The reason for my thread was I had heard that spherical bearings from Moco were Teflon coated and did not need to be lubed but I have not been able to verify that.  The bushings/spacers in the CCE kit are plated steel and I have always tried to lube any direct metal contact that moves against itself for obvious reasons. I was hoping to hear from someone that has done this or a reason why it  should not be done. Just trying to do the best solution for this upgrade.  Any constructive input would be appreciated.

Any metal to metal surface that supports movement requires lubrication, this is a basic engineering principal.  I was quite taken back when I dropped my swing arm for bearing inspections and discovered no appreciable means to perform basic lub maintenance to these bearings other then to dismantle the swing arm.
I will be looking at these kits you mention, first time I have heard of them.

Cheers  Paul

We all know that metal to metal contacts that move need some kind of lube, the question was would adding a zerk be a benefit? I ran mx for many many years and there were no zerk fittings on 99% of my bikes. Given the almost pristine working conditions of a street ridden cruiser vs a motocross machine(and we always pressure washed our race bikes) , I see no appreciable benefit to add a zerk. Well greased upon re assembly will suffice.

I specified Teflon lined with the last lot of spherical bearings I needed, they are in use and still working well.

Quote from: qtrracer on August 18, 2012, 01:31:26 PM
We all know that metal to metal contacts that move need some kind of lube, the question was would adding a zerk be a benefit? I ran mx for many many years and there were no zerk fittings on 99% of my bikes. Given the almost pristine working conditions of a street ridden cruiser vs a motocross machine(and we always pressure washed our race bikes) , I see no appreciable benefit to add a zerk. Well greased upon re assembly will suffice.

Did you run one bike for more than 1 year??

The new stuff, they want you disassemble clean, inspect grease and reassemble after every 7.5 hours of riding.. (2010 CRF250F)

Max

Quote from: Max Headflow on August 18, 2012, 04:51:02 PM

Quote from: qtrracer on August 18, 2012, 01:31:26 PM
We all know that metal to metal contacts that move need some kind of lube, the question was would adding a zerk be a benefit? I ran mx for many many years and there were no zerk fittings on 99% of my bikes. Given the almost pristine working conditions of a street ridden cruiser vs a motocross machine(and we always pressure washed our race bikes) , I see no appreciable benefit to add a zerk. Well greased upon re assembly will suffice.

Did you run one bike for more than 1 year??

The new stuff, they want you disassemble clean, inspect grease and reassemble after every 7.5 hours of riding.. (2010 CRF250F)

Max

I pretty much followed whatever the service manual specified give or take a race weekend. Shoot to clean a race bike properly they need to be almost totally disassembled anyways.  I also refrained from using the pressure washer on the swingarm pivot and/or the linkage pivots when those came on to the scene. And no I never raced a bike more than 1 season, they updated suspension components, designs and engine upgrades way too fast to do that, sometimes they had 1/2 year model releases and I sold my current ride and bought the newest model. Now they keep the same spec's for 3 years. However these new bikes handle awesome and the suspension is stellar out of the box for everyone but the national level racers.

I have to replace my swingarm bearings also (getting a little too much play for my liking). I was planning on installing a zert in the swingarm pivot myself. I can't see that it would hurt anything as long as a person doesn't overgrease and have it spit out on the rear tire. Will be looking into this CCE kit if it can maintain some tighter tolerances.

Quote from: clawdog60 on January 08, 2013, 10:08:03 AM
I have to replace my swingarm bearings also (getting a little too much play for my liking). I was planning on installing a zert in the swingarm pivot myself. I can't see that it would hurt anything as long as a person doesn't overgrease and have it spit out on the rear tire. Will be looking into this CCE kit if it can maintain some tighter tolerances.

Mine were completely worn out at 70000mi. , but I replaced them without adding zert fittings. Wish I had now.
The slop was really bad on the right side, I was shocked! Can't feel it unless you remove the tire and dissconnect
your shocks. This is on a softail.

Mine is a 02 RK 65K miles. I can feel the play while riding but, like you said get the back wheel off the bike on a jack and then the slop really stands out.

I have some chrome bucks to spend. 70K need to do the swing arm. Wtf spherical or clevbloc? Its a bagger not my R1200R cylinder dragger. Its slways been fairly solid in corners I just want minimal vibrations and normal cornering.

What I ended up doing was to use an 07 swing arm with 07 HD parts and sleeved the inner and outer spacers with bronze bushings from McMaster-Carr. Cut them down to fit spacer's length, reamed to fit 3/4" shaft and Locktite Green the bushings to the spacers.

As for greasing the spherical bearings it appears the HD units are Teflon impregnated and greasing the assembly would be a lot of re-engineering. Lots of open spaces between the swingarm and spacers and not an easy way to close them off to contain the grease.  The inner spacers just sit on the shaft and are not pressed in the swing arm. The support of the swing arm is on the spherical bearings, they are the only units pressed into the swing arm. Maybe someone can shed light on a way to do this but this setup seems to get the job done the way it is.

I've put 300 miles on the upgrade and have not noticed any increase in vibration worth talking about. Bike does seem to be a bit more stable but I also changed over to 6 spoke cast wheels from wire laced. I'm pleased with the outcome and have moved on to upgrading the top end to a 95 CI.

BDB,

Did you ream the 3/4" O.D. bronze bushings to fit the 5/8" pivot bolt?

Sorry I meant 5/8" shaft. The 07 parts are 3/4"  McMaster-Carr #6381K536 bushing 3/4 to 5/8. Qty=4.

Bulldog,

I thought you would bush the spacers as an assembly on each side.

Right than, so there are 2 spacers on each side:  one is pressed into the spherical bearing, which is pressed into the swingarm, and one is used to take up the space between the bearing and the rubber mount that is attached to the frame. The one not pressed into the bearing is truly just a spacer and is not pressed into the swingarm. It doesnt support anything other than a way to compress the rubber mount to the spherical bearing. I guess you could do 1 bushing on each side but I saw no reason to change HD's setup. I do think  it would a bit of a job to press the whole assembly into the swingarm as 1 unit and would think that was the reason every kit I looked at had 2 spacers per side.  For me I just needed to size down to a 5/8 shaft and this worked for me.

I read everything I could on this before deciding to go this route. A good write up is here:

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/evo-classic-models/493834-upgrade-swingarm-3.html.

It shows several ideas on swingarm upgrade. There are a bunch of discussions on this u/g. I did it to get rid of the weak pre-02 swing arm and not a wobble problem. Fortunately my 01 RK has low miles and didnt show this bad habit.

Thank you for the explaination and the link. I received my 07 swingarm this morning from any4xx, everything looks near new. I will copy what you did. Thank you for your assistance.

Brian

Everyone keeps posting 2007 "Swingarm"
What makes this year better than the 2002 to 2006 model?
Same 1" axle, same 3/4 pivot bolt, same belt adjuster system.
What am I missing?

For me it was just newer. I think the wheel may be wider and the belt pulley narrower should you choose to run a wider tire. However you'd have to pukk the primary to change that pulley as well.

BTW,

I got the bushings from mm carr. Went to check the swingarm, no spherical bearings installed. The previous owner was going to install Sta-bos and must have pressed the old bearings out. Time to place another order. The bearings on line are only $48 plus shipping for two and the bushings were only $18.00 shipped. That's a lot cheaper than the converson kits.

Ok, I'm going to go with some kind of upgrade on this 02 swingarm. My bike came with sphericals and 3/4" shaft I'm not impressed with the bearings, I think they're is alot of static load on them just from the weight of trans and engine. If I understand corre3ctly the Sta-bo bushings replace the bearings? I'm not impressed with the stock support doughnuts and will be upgrading to urethane (appears glide pro has the best setup?) The right side doughtnut had sagged considerably more than the left. Who knows what kind of stresses this was putting on the drive train.

Quote from: clawdog60 on January 20, 2013, 01:10:06 PM
Ok, I'm going to go with some kind of upgrade on this 02 swingarm. My bike came with sphericals and 3/4" shaft I'm not impressed with the bearings, I think they're is alot of static load on them just from the weight of trans and engine. If I understand corre3ctly the Sta-bo bushings replace the bearings? I'm not impressed with the stock support doughnuts and will be upgrading to urethane (appears glide pro has the best setup?) The right side doughtnut had sagged considerably more than the left. Who knows what kind of stresses this was putting on the drive train.

I have an 02 also and am considering changing the bearings due to movement. I called StaBo last week and talked to the owner. He said his ED16 bearings are a sealed bearing (not spherical). This makes a lot of sense to me. The stock sleeves are pressed into these bearings and then bearings are pressed into the swingarm same as stock. I told him that when grabbing the swingarm by the axle holes and shocks removed I can feel & hear side to side mevement, he advised to grip the swingarm in the front as close as possible and to check for lateral movement (similar to what Max was doing in his drunken camel thread) as doing it the way I was may be leverage causing flex at the rubber donut. He said if more than .010 play he would replace the bearings. If no movement doing it this way he said the StaBo II would be his reccomendation. Going to check this week. I can't see any down side to replacing the spherical bearings with a non spherical but then again I'm no expert. Just relating what was told to me.

Klammer

QuoteOk, I'm going to go with some kind of upgrade on this 02 swingarm. My bike came with sphericals and 3/4" shaft I'm not impressed with the bearings, I think they're is alot of static load on them just from the weight of trans and engine.

Sorry but the motor and tranny don't load the swingarm.. The Swing-arm is the static load on the tranny..  The tranny is supported by the rubber donuts in the back..

I'm not sure about using to ball bearing on both sides to support the swingarm is that is what they are doing.. The issue is that the holes in the swingarm halves may bit be perfectly lined up.. I'd prefer bronse bushing over balls either way.. The problem is that the ball won't have a chance to move any more than the small amount the swingarm moves.. As a result the bearings will wear out quickly.. Heck the timkins in a dyna swingarm don't last all that long either..  Seems like the Stabo plastic busing would be better but if the plastic can't handle the deflection and deforms it may be all that good either.. And we are back to bronze.

Max