HarleyTechTalk

I'm having the forks re-built and am think I will install eith RT or Ricor valving.

The RT valving requires you drill out the damper rod, but the Ricor does not.  How can Ricor take over the damping chores if the stock damping is left in place?

Does anyone have experience with both of these products?  Could you weigh in with your preference?

If you've used either in your 49mm dyna forks, let me know what you thought....

TIA

I have the race tech emulators and springs in my Deuce.  They eliminated the dive I was experiencing.  Now to add to the confusion I would like to try these next:

http://www.traxxion.com/harley-davidsonmotorcyclessuspensionupgrade.aspx

Quote from: ThumperDeuce on January 26, 2013, 09:54:31 AM
I have the race tech emulators and springs in my Deuce.  They eliminated the dive I was experiencing.  Now to add to the confusion I would like to try these next:

http://www.traxxion.com/harley-davidsonmotorcyclessuspensionupgrade.aspx

That damper rod/ fork upgrade is in my budget....  Yeah, more options

No experience with Ricor,  If you have read their site you know more than me.  I do know that they use thin (5w) fork oil which would sort of explains how they eliminate the damper rod from comp. damping without drilling it.  How they control the rebound damping with the thin oil I'm not sure which is needed especially with stiffer springs.  Would be nice to have an accurate tech explanation. I know people on other brand bikes that have used and like them FWIW.  The inertia valve in the Ricor sounds like a good idea.  Sorry really no help,  the RT emulator is a known/proven item.

Are you going to use your stock springs?  RT list the spring rate for the 49mm forks as .96kg/mm.  If that is true Harley actually but a nice set of springs in something.   RT only has 1 set of springs/rate for 49mm and they are for a V-rod application.  They do offer a service to cut/shorten your stock springs to up the spring rate,  if you knew how much to cut you could do that yourself along with the then needed longer preload spacers.  Rick

Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on January 26, 2013, 11:27:34 AM
No experience with Ricor,  If you have read their site you know more than me.  I do know that they use thin (5w) fork oil which would sort of explains how they eliminate the damper rod from comp. damping without drilling it.  How they control the rebound damping with the thin oil I'm not sure which is needed especially with stiffer springs.  Would be nice to have an accurate tech explanation. I know people on other brand bikes that have used and like them FWIW.  The inertia valve in the Ricor sounds like a good idea.  Sorry really no help,  the RT emulator is a known/proven item.

Are you going to use your stock springs?  RT list the spring rate for the 49mm forks as .96kg/mm.  If that is true Harley actually but a nice set of springs in something.   RT only has 1 set of springs/rate for 49mm and they are for a V-rod application.  They do offer a service to cut/shorten your stock springs to up the spring rate,  if you knew how much to cut you could do that yourself along with the then needed longer preload spacers.  Rick

I was thinking I'd reuse the stock springs, they seem to be the right rate.  I'm looking for a little better feel, and I was hoping to control brake dive.  So, Rick, was your experience with The RT emulators good? 

They work well,  definitely worth doing.  Adding speed sensitive comp. damping allows you to run a little heavier oil and still have good response/bump absorption (high speed comp.) yet increased low speed comp. damping that lessens dive, wallow etc. 
Link to how they work:   http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulators-How%20They%20Work

If you look around the emulators can be had at a discounted price.    Rick

I have had Ricors in my Street Bob forks with Progressive springs for a couple of years and could not be happier with them, took all the dive out and give great road feed back.

Any idea of the spring rate on the Progressive springs?  Versus stock spring rate?   If they are the same as their std. springs for other applications they will start off about the same as the stock springs and get progressively firmer farther into the travel.  Rick

Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on January 26, 2013, 05:27:33 PM
Any idea of the spring rate on the Progressive springs?  Versus stock spring rate?   If they are the same as their std. springs for other applications they will start off about the same as the stock springs and get progressively firmer farther into the travel.  Rick

Here is link to Progressive's site and what they have to say about the progressive spring rate.

http://www.progressivesuspension.com/forksprings/index.html

Quote from: Bona Fide Bob on January 26, 2013, 03:08:27 PM
I have had Ricors in my Street Bob forks with Progressive springs for a couple of years and could not be happier with them, took all the dive out and give great road feed back.

I'll be upgrading my suspension this winter and was mostly considering RT springs/emulators or Progressive monotubes. You are one of the rarities I see using fork valves (Ricors) with Progressive springs. I initially considered RT gold valves with the Progressive springs but had no feedback. I see you have a lighter bike vs my 09 FLHT. Wonder how this set-up would work in a heavier bike??

I don't know how they will work on a heavier bike, but when I was setting up my bike, the service departments of Ricor and Progressives were very helpful.
  I also installed a True Track stabilizer on my Street Bob, it will stick in turns now until the tires start to slide with out a bobble or twitch from the suspension.

Racetech emulators are a great product. I'm pretty sure the only reason you drill out the dampeners is because you don't need the "flow control" of them . Thats what the emulators do, pressure compensated.
I will use them again, sure kicks the stock set up. Imo.

I use the Patriot springs in my front forks.  It is a spring within a spring. Also they are made in the USA. I love they springs.

Race Tech Emulators Work for me!
I would also suggest Race Techs suggested spring rate and A fork brace!
A massive improvement for my street bob! Used in conjunction with New Progressive rear shocks, Bike rides better now at 85mph on rain grooved pavement than it did at 45mph on flat pavement.
Corner speeds increased 25-30mph!
I don't EVER bottom the forks anymore either. Stock they bottomed at 40 mph 9 places on the way to work!

Ok, thanks for all the replies.

I'll ask my Indy about RT progressive springs to go with the gold vales.  It seems a number of you have had good results doing both the springs and the valves.

For what it's worth when I spoke with the Race Tech support guy he said that I should either go with the progressive springs or the emulators not both.  So I ended up using the Race Tech springs.  The tech support people at RaceTech are very easy to talk to.

Ohhh Crappp!  This thread is getting confusing because a Dyna with 49mm forks is different as to stock spring rate (firmer) than other Harley models and the only spring set RT has for 49mm forks is and was chosen for the V-rod.  I researched this to shed some light on the actual facts as to spring rate in this thread, http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,56398.50.html  post 62 & 63 has the actual spring rate of the RT springs #RFRS S4435P20 for 49mm forks.
-  Race Tech only stocks one spring set for the 49mm forks.  The spring set was chosen with the rake and cruiser application of the V-Rod in mind NOT THE DYNA, and according to the RT rep. that I talked to the only progressive set of springs they have for a Harley,  all others are straight rate.
-  He tested the spring set for spring rate and they have a considerably lower spring rate than a stock Dyna spring thru most of the travel.  They only become stiffer than stock in the last inch or so of travel.  The RT Rep. and I agreed that the stock springs would be better in a Dyna for most people. He mentioned cutting/shortening the stock springs is an option if an increase in spring rate is desired.
-  I believe the reason RT does not stock more springs for the 49mm is that the stock springs are pretty close to the needed rate for most applications.

As mentioned most aftermarket suspension companies will tell you to stick with springs and valves from the same company especially if it is a kit.  That said you can use springs from a different vendor as long as the springs are close to the spring rate spec'd/needed with the valves/emulators you are running given your weight, riding style,  and bike model.  Progressive springs could even be used in place of straight rate as long as the average rate is close, although hitting the ideal/perfect set-up and emulator settings the first time is tougher as RT's suggestions for initial settings is typically real close. 

If I was installing emulators in a 49mm Dyna I would try the stock springs,  adjust preload so SAG is 1-1/4" to 1-3/8" w/rider on bike,  15wt. oil set at the higher of Harley or RT's volume/level spec.  If the bike has some miles on it you could replace the inner and outer bushings, damper rod split rings if you like and obviously oil seals and dust shields.    Rick

I put the Ricor's in my 08 FXDC and am very happy with the results. When you order them they ask about your weight, riding style, if you're using stock springs and if you ride 2 up (I don't). Based on your answers they drill the oil passages and set the shim stack. The inertia valve is what controls the rebound damping.

I have about 3,000 miles on these and am very pleased; the only thing that takes a little getting used to is that they make a clicking noise when you're braking on a bumpy road. Best improvement I've made so far and it was only a little over $200.

Glenn

I should also add that I have no experience with the RaceTech emulators.

Doesn't the inertia valve control low speed compression damping and play a part in the transition from low to high speed compression damping?   It basically firms up low speed comp. damping when the bike is braking/slowing.  Tell me bout it.   Rick