HarleyTechTalk

If you don't hit the shifter pedal hard enough, can a trans go out of the present gear, but not go into the next gear, and get hung up between gears?

Thx.

Yes

which tranny you got???5 or 6

Quote from: kristian on October 06, 2013, 05:39:55 PM
which tranny you got???5 or 6

stock 6 speed

If you are real careful, you can find Neutral between every gear

Quote from: apendejo on October 06, 2013, 07:35:32 PM
If you are real careful, you can find Neutral between every gear

LOL. Yes, I think I've found them all. Need to eat my Wheaties, I guess.

stroke that bad boy!

Funny, I thought I was the only one ... noticed mine mainly between 2nd & 3rd ...  (6 Speed)

You said that you hit the shift lever? I pull my shift lever gently into the next gear. It's possible that the OP has a bent shifter fork. 

Quote from: Ultrashovel on October 09, 2013, 04:49:47 AM
You said that you hit the shift lever? I pull my shift lever gently into the next gear. It's possible that the OP has a bent shifter fork.

I have heel-toe shifter.

Quote from: Six Blues on October 09, 2013, 02:36:10 PM

Quote from: Ultrashovel on October 09, 2013, 04:49:47 AM
You said that you hit the shift lever? I pull my shift lever gently into the next gear. It's possible that the OP has a bent shifter fork.

I have heel-toe shifter.

You could still have a problem with a shifter fork.....

Quote from: Ultrashovel on October 09, 2013, 03:50:07 PM

Quote from: Six Blues on October 09, 2013, 02:36:10 PM

Quote from: Ultrashovel on October 09, 2013, 04:49:47 AM
You said that you hit the shift lever? I pull my shift lever gently into the next gear. It's possible that the OP has a bent shifter fork.

I have heel-toe shifter.

You could still have a problem with a shifter fork.....

OK, I know how to get them out, but I don't know how to check them.

Typically a bent shift fork won't cause a false neutral.. Bent fork cause the tranny to jump out and back in under a load.. Corresponding clutch dogs for that gear are worn..

If it's a false neutral that requires a second shift to get the tranny into gear, the first thing you need to check is that the linkage is not limited in travel.. Usually with a heal shifter, the heal shifter touches the floorboard but it could be something else.  Almost all motorcycle transmissions don't use synchros to slow the engagement of the next gear but a simple set of posts or dogs or slots on 2 items, gears and/or driven rings to make select the next gear.. What can happen is that when the gear is changed, if the rpms of the 2 gears just match when the gear is shifted, the dogs could butt up against each other and the tranny doesn't go all the way into the next gear.. Also if the dogs are rounded, they can bump into each other, kicking the drum back into the false neutral.. That issue can bend a shift fork. 

When shifting it's always good to feel the how much the lever travels so that you know it's on the next gear.. Don't need to bang it, just apply enough pressure to make sure that it travels all the way into the next gear..

Max

^^^^^^^^^^^ Thanks a lot for the info. Someday I'll take a look.

Simple starting place is to double check the linkage for smoothness, adjustment, excess wear, bent, etc. Then re-lube it. Been mentioned, just wanted to re-iterate.

5's are easily feathered between gears if not enough pressure is applied, easily put in N from 2nd if u have the touch.  ive yet to duplicate the same on a 2007 or 2010 6 gear. just sayin.

Quote from: Hossamania on October 09, 2013, 07:14:42 PM
Simple starting place is to double check the linkage for smoothness, adjustment, excess wear, bent, etc. Then re-lube it. Been mentioned, just wanted to re-iterate.

I checked the above and all appears to be good. I have about 1/8" clearance between the pedal and footboard when shifting, so that should be enough. It doesn't do it very often, so I blame it on wimpy shifting technique. Always does it on upshifting, never during downshifts.

Thanks.

1/8" is pretty close. The pedal could be flexing just a bit. I would try to get at least about 1/4" if possible.
Try shifting with your toe and see if the problem continues. If not, then could be the 1/8" clearance and flex that is causing the issue.
I would still go for a little more clearance.

When you checked clearance, was that with you pushing down with your heel in a normal or even a bit higher pressure (like a speed shift with a little adrenaline) and have someone check the clearance for you? There is a bit of play in all that linkage to the tranny.

Quote from: Hossamania on October 10, 2013, 08:17:40 PM
When you checked clearance, was that with you pushing down with your heel in a normal or even a bit higher pressure (like a speed shift with a little adrenaline) and have someone check the clearance for you? There is a bit of play in all that linkage to the tranny.

I push it down hard with my hand, and I can slide cardboard around between the pedal and footboard. It might flex a bit more momentarily when actually shifting. I have a one-piece shifter pedal, so I can't raise the heel part without also moving the toe part down. If I do that, the toe pedal might hit. Gotta balance it out. I'll check that tomorrow. Thanks.

Quote from: kristian on October 10, 2013, 06:23:11 PM
5's are easily feathered between gears if not enough pressure is applied, easily put in N from 2nd if u have the touch.  ive yet to duplicate the same on a 2007 or 2010 6 gear. just sayin.

Depends on the year.. 02 baggers and pretty much all tc softails are better than the early TCs and EVOs.. Still it's sloppy shifting if you undershift.. Early ones are prone to over-shift going from 2nd to 3rd also.

QuoteI checked the above and all appears to be good. I have about 1/8" clearance between the pedal and footboard when shifting, so that should be enough

Is the motor running while doing this or are you rocking the the bike back and forth??

QuoteIt doesn't do it very often, so I blame it on wimpy shifting technique. Always does it on upshifting, never during downshifts.

If the dogs on the gears line up when you tap the shifter and the Rs are just right, the dogs bump face to face it don't go all the way into gear..  Bet shifting at 5500 rpm the problem happens less..




Max

"Is the motor running while doing this or are you rocking the the bike back and forth??"

Off and on the kickstand

Quote from: Six Blues on October 11, 2013, 06:03:16 PM
"Is the motor running while doing this or are you rocking the the bike back and forth??"

Off and on the kickstand

What's that mean?  You are rocking the bike from side to side?

Max

Quote from: Max Headflow on October 11, 2013, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Six Blues on October 11, 2013, 06:03:16 PM
"Is the motor running while doing this or are you rocking the the bike back and forth??"

Off and on the kickstand

What's that mean?  You are rocking the bike from side to side?

Max

Well it was perfectly clear to me.    I meant engine off, bike on kickstand and not moving, pushing down on the shifter with one hand and beer in the other one. It felt like it went into gear nicely. I suppose when actually shifting, there may be less clearance than 1/8".

It sounds like the shift lever doesn't have enough clearance above the floorboard to permit the next higher gear to engage consistently. 1/8" (.125) just isn't enough.

I have a single shift lever on my 2011 Dyna with forward controls. It has never missed a shift. It is free to move to the stop in the transmission with each shift.

I would move the rear lever up a notch. I had the same problem with my 2004 Ultra until I moved the rear lever up.