HarleyTechTalk

In NSW you could start with a call to Bob Axisa, he will help with the work or recommend some one to you. The very good shops have a loooonnnngggg waiting list here.
Join the HD Fourms Australia for his contact info (daddyracer56)
have a read of that forum, quite a few competent shops that can help you.

Hi Strokerjlk,

Thank you for your input.

I am very confused now as all the Dyno graphs I have seen have the 110 motor with gains in both HP and Torque in all parts on the Dyno graph. Infact it appears you gain 10-15 HP Torque after those Cams are installed with no loss in performance at any RPM ?

I was under the impression this bolt in Cam gives good overall performance gains with no need to adjust the compression?

Thanks Ozy Max.

I will take a look at that Ausy site.

Quote from: hogdownunder on January 01, 2014, 02:35:43 PM
I was under the impression this bolt in Cam gives good overall performance gains with no need to adjust the compression?

I think you are under the right impression.  I don't see the 25tq lose in the posted dyno's either.  IME both these cams will do better with compression, headwork, and a better choice of pipes.  Just like any other cam on the market.

Quote from: hogdownunder on January 01, 2014, 02:35:43 PM
Hi Strokerjlk,

Thank you for your input.

I am very confused now as all the Dyno graphs I have seen have the 110 motor with gains in both HP and Torque in all parts on the Dyno graph. Infact it appears you gain 10-15 HP Torque after those Cams are installed with no loss in performance at any RPM ?

I was under the impression this bolt in Cam gives good overall performance gains with no need to adjust the compression?

here is another stage  1 with powerdual exhaust.
so you were able to see the 25 tq gain.at 2400 rpms . with the same exhaust as yours. 110-85 = 25 

2500 rpms the diff is 25 tq also
115-90 = 25

These are with a 24D or 557?

Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 01, 2014, 03:43:24 PM
These are with a 24D or 557?

all of mine are stock 255 cams =stage 1

Quote from: hogdownunder on January 01, 2014, 02:35:43 PM
Hi Strokerjlk,

Thank you for your input.

I am very confused now as all the Dyno graphs I have seen have the 110 motor with gains in both HP and Torque in all parts on the Dyno graph. Infact it appears you gain 10-15 HP Torque after those Cams are installed with no loss in performance at any RPM ?

I was under the impression this bolt in Cam gives good overall performance gains with no need to adjust the compression?

since you are not tuned now . you are more like the green graph. 79/97 or lets just say 80/100. tune what you have and you will see the gains like I showed in the first graph. 93hp 115 tq. that's a big jump from what your used to.
there are a dozen diff cams that will give you 103-109 hp 115 -120 tq .but it shifts to the right ,and starts feeling soft ,vs  a good tuned stage 1.
now throw one of those hp cams vs  the green graph (weak tuned) it MIGHT show a gain down low.
with your pipes once you take that tractor cam out ,its gonna be weaker on the bottom.
usually if a guy gets a taste of a good tuned stage 1 he is disappointed with a stage 2 bolt in.
now a good stage 4 that has it all! bottom and top end 

this one turned out nice . but it isn't your exhaust.
this is a bolt in S&S 570 with a SE 58 mm t/b RB 2-1
sheet says feuling 574 . but he gave the indy shop that put the cams in the bike, his 570's by mistake.
good mistake though 
funny we didn't know it until he went to sell the 570's

Hi Strokerjlk ,

From what you are suggesting, maybe I should leave the SE 255 Cams in the motor and just obtain a good tune from a competent tuner..

I do like the good low end torque that bike has now withe SE 255 Cams and wanted to keep that same low end torque even after installing either the Genesis 577 or Kuryakyn TC 24 D cams. It appears that those cams may not give me what I am after? I certainly don't want to lose any low end torque if I install either of those cams.. 

Quote from: hogdownunder on January 02, 2014, 04:34:33 AM
Hi Strokerjlk ,

From what you are suggesting, maybe I should leave the SE 225 Cams in the motor and just obtain a good tune from a competent tuner..

I do like the good low end torque that bike has now withe SE 225 Cams and wanted to keep that same low end torque even after installing either the Genesis 577 or Kuryakyn TC 24 D cams. It appears that those cams may not give me what I am after? I certainly don't want to lose any low end torque if I install either of those cams.. 

yep...it's a trade off.  guys see a bigger HP number and thats all they look at. dont get me wrong some guys like the extra HP in the high rpms. (i am one of them)
but in reality so many guys short shift and stay below 3000-4000  rpms. 
with your exhaust t/b etc etc .if you really want to try another cam? and yes we like to try stuff just because we want to try something diff  ..... try a andrews 48

Well I can say I disagree that installing these cams  that you are going to see a loss of low end power.

If someone has a dyno sheet showing this information and it is a softail post it up.

We just did a CVO bike and the numbers I have seen in this post are unbelievable, Looks to be a very good running bike, although well over what I have seen first hand on a softail. 

The one we did a few months ago was tuned over in Dallas. Bike ran very well guy just wanted more. With the install of the cam only it picked up 18 tq and 15 hp over a tuned bike. It had V&H big shot staggered pipes gotta love them  . TQ curve is up across the board with ZERO loss anywhere in the curve.

Those pipes do ok with shorter exhaust duration and the 255 and the 577 have close to the same duration.  It does depend on where you ride in the rpm range most of the time and where you shift but set up correctly the 577 has been looking pretty good.  If you do loose any tq down low I doubt it would be very much at all compared to the 255. 

show me one making 55 hp and 115 tq @ 2500...

 

Quote from: strokerjlk on January 02, 2014, 12:47:19 PM
show me one making 55 hp and 115 tq @ 2500...

Are you saying that the numbers you have quoted are what the SE 255 Cams make at 2,500 RPM?

Quote from: hogdownunder on January 05, 2014, 02:13:03 AM

Quote from: strokerjlk on January 02, 2014, 12:47:19 PM
show me one making 55 hp and 115 tq @ 2500...

Are you saying that the numbers you have quoted are what the SE 255 Cams make at 2,500 RPM?

Yes . Reply#24 is a 255 cam (stage1) or stock cams
Same exhaust as yours . Look at the sheet .
Actually both the sheets I posted are stage 1's . Just a diff exhaust .
Look at those sheets , then look at the one hardtail posted .
He proves my point very well. 

Reply # 34 was a S&S 570 bolt in . Just so there is no confusion.

Reply #24 doesn't show 115tq at 2500.  Maybe 110.  It is hard to tell because the scaling has been jacked with.

Something that needs to be kept in mind when comparing different dyno sheets from different operators.  WinPep, The computer program for the dyno, lets you start a run several different ways.  One way is to hold a RPM with the brake, get the throttle position you want (WOT).  Then hit the run button.  Brake releases and sampling has started.  These sheets will start out at zero.  Then there are runs that capture the WOT after the run is already started.  You can start down at 2000.  Whack the throttle WOT and then hit the button to start the sampling.  Or you can have WinPep start sampling a run at a certain RPM.  Problem looking at these runs for comparisons is they don't show what happens to throttle right before it samples.  If you whack WOT at 2000.  Unload the drivetrain at 2200 by closing the throttle and whack it again right before you hit the sample button or have it set to automatically record run at 2300.  It will show higher starting TQ and HP.  That little bit of unloading and loading shows a little more acceleration of the drum.  Acceleration is all the dyno knows.

Scaling has been talked about and there is some good examples already posted that shows how that can be played with.

Something to keep in mind.

Quote from: hogdownunder on January 05, 2014, 02:13:03 AM

Quote from: strokerjlk on January 02, 2014, 12:47:19 PM
show me one making 55 hp and 115 tq @ 2500...

Are you saying that the numbers you have quoted are what the SE 255 Cams make at 2,500 RPM?

I ignored that post because I didn't see a 255 make those numbers(Not in this thread either.)  Burden of proof is on the guy that makes a statement about loosing 25tq with the 577/ 24D over the 255.  The 2-5 tq that I do see.  I really cant go on because of the reasons I stated above.

just because you dont see that kind of power out of a stage 1 cvo ...dosent mean squat.
its there . I am not the only one that gets these kinds of numbers.. lets see BVBOB , Herko both have seen the same thing.
it isnt rocket science !

Then it should be easy for you to find a sheet and prove it. 

http://www.jackpotmufflers.com/stainless-headpipe.html

There are a couple of 110 stage I's on this page with a exhaust I consider to be good at low end torque.

I believe that it will lose at 2500 but gain at all of the other rpms. But I believe a good tune will help the current situation.

Quote from: hrdtail78 on January 05, 2014, 07:58:14 AM
Then it should be easy for you to find a sheet and prove it. 

http://www.jackpotmufflers.com/stainless-headpipe.html

There are a couple of 110 stage I's on this page with a exhaust I consider to be good at low end torque.

i posted a sheet that proves it.
you posted a sheet that proved my point. 
keep going though ,you are your worst enemy   

What reply shows 115 at 2500 with a Stage I CVO?  I see the 570 or whatever it is.  Your sheets are never straight forward.  I can find plenty that don't show it.

Something else I do when comparing different cams with different dyno sheets.  I look for repeatable results and don't hang my hat with one sheet.  We are talking a crate engine from HD.  They are all not the same.

Reply 24 shows 110 tq at 2500
Reply 29 shows under 100 tq at 2500.
Reply 34 is ?? Maybe just another excuse to post up your shop name??

Quote from: strokerjlk on January 01, 2014, 09:01:07 AM
  gain 10 hp from 4500 rpms up ,lose 10 hp or tq under 4500.

Doing some averaging on the runs posted from 2500-4500

Reply 21 is 115tq  577
Reply 22 is 111tq  24D
Reply 24 is 110tq  255
Reply 29 is 108tq  255

Math can be checked.  It is hard to get the numbers perfect looking at just a sheet.  BUT it isn't off enough to find a lose of 10 tq.  I do see the gain above 4500 stroker mentioned.

Quote from: strokerjlk on January 05, 2014, 08:28:52 AM
i posted a sheet that proves it.