HarleyTechTalk

OK what about corrosion. We know the auto industry introduced polymers and teflon to the inside of fuel tanks, and the fuel systems in autos are designed to withstand corrosion more effectively than in the past, has Harley done the same with our tanks/fuel systems? I've read that E85 can cause the sediment in the gas tank to dissolve and then get picked up by the fuel pump, possibly shortening it's life, is this a concern for the Harley pumps also?

Don't really care about all this E85 stuff - ain't gonna use it - no way no how! It is not good for any of my vehicles.   

Still haven't got an answer on the cost - is it cheaper then normal (10%) gas??   

What's an estimate to make your bike/car E85 compatable???   

Quote from: GARYD on February 28, 2014, 06:22:32 AM
Don't really care about all this E85 stuff - ain't gonna use it - no way no how! It is not good for any of my vehicles.   

Still haven't got an answer on the cost - is it cheaper then normal (10%) gas??   

What's an estimate to make your bike/car E85 compatable???   

It's cheaper than e 10 but uses more .
I am not really concerned with mpg on my toy.
It's just that it is 102-105 octane and is cheaper than any racing gas I am using now .
I can't afford to run 13.00-16.00 a gal fuel in my street bike, so it's just an alternative for me .
I have heard a few guys having good luck with mpg with 50 % e 70-85 and 50% e 10 87 octane.
I am not doing anything special to my bike other than big injectors .

Quote from: strokerjlk on February 28, 2014, 07:41:20 AM

Quote from: GARYD on February 28, 2014, 06:22:32 AM
Don't really care about all this E85 stuff - ain't gonna use it - no way no how! It is not good for any of my vehicles.   

Still haven't got an answer on the cost - is it cheaper then normal (10%) gas??   

What's an estimate to make your bike/car E85 compatable???   

It's cheaper than e 10 but uses more .
I am not really concerned with mpg on my toy.
It's just that it is 102-105 octane and is cheaper than any racing gas I am using now .
I can't afford to run 13.00-16.00 a gal fuel in my street bike, so it's just an alternative for me .
I have heard a few guys having good luck with mpg with 50 % e 70-85 and 50% e 10 87 octane.
I am not doing anything special to my bike other than big injectors .

So it doesn't harm any seals or gaskets like some say it does???

I'm just wondering why there is such an uproar about it, if it isn't bad for the millions of cars/bikes on the road.   

I wouldn't let it sit for months in the tank . But I have talked to quite a few guys running it lately. They all are saying the same thing . It's not caustic like a lot of guys say.
It's like anything else . You can't always listen to critics that have never tried it.
Some people are very convincing with their non experience opinion ( parroting) . So I tend believe the ones that have actually done it .
This alum bar has been in this jar of E98 since 2008 . It's just shiny . No corrosion at all.

a stock harley can run on e85 or e100 vp make  the e100 ive ran 160-190 proof in my bike requirea tune more ethanol slower burn, less fuel faster burn also e85 is nesscery 85% ethnole and 15% 87 octane it vary per seanson need more gas in colder weather

Not a metalurgist, but got to figure rates of corrosion between steel and aluminum different. Think of the metal content throughtout HD's. No horse in this race, just trying to sort it out.
Temperatures play a siginificant role as well.

Dyer i cant give you all the fact you want just things ive tried,hear or been told ,i still have no dyno sheet or info on the Intake air charge for stroker other then a/f has to be changed and bike seems more pepper how every the downside to ethanol is it absorbed water at higher rate  when exposed which if it sits for a long time leads to rusting i know few racer leave it in there gas tank year round and have no trouble they even run old 60's-70's model metal fuel lines, also ethanol clean really really well runs a tank of e85 thought a bike/car and it will clean itself and it will clean a  gas tank/line, also pure ethanol by itself is great at cleaning thing think of motors ran on propane with either case if you have any experience with them, the reason they mix gas with ethanol is to help the motor warm up quick in cold below 50 degrees if i recall they say mix 87 octane or worse that all the gas is there for that and added top-end lubrication , also to add im only 24 but way befor my time they had what was called gas-o-nol i belive is how it was spelled it was early stage of e10 at the pump other thing to say  ethanol and gas have different viscous so in carb set-up that need to be tooking into account running high level of ethanol, they say and i have seen video of them pulling motors/gas tank and fuel pumps apart and one on e85 looks better they say its better for the fuel pump as well, my dealing with pure drink ethanol has been pretty good other then i have to take my tank off and dry it part i having trouble with or scared of with running pure drinking ethanol as it still has 5-10% water in it and is find to run as long as no petroleum base product get mix in with the tank(it cause the water to separate from the pure none distilled ethanol(what i refer to drinkable ethanol) and water sits at the bottom) when i find something to mix in with drinking ethanol  to help lube i will be one happy camper to make ethanol able to mix with gas it has to be 200 proof and by then its undrinkable due to the process to get the water out to get it to 200 proof btw VP sell it but i think it outrageous price(70-80 for 5 gallon) see as it only cost me maybe 10 buck to make a 26 gallon mesh and out 26 gallon i will get 5-6 gallon of 160-190 proof and about afterward it gose down and we start mix water in to get where it sits at 80-90 proof  maybe 1 gallon will be 190 proof that what i take  if we had better set-up we could get more

I changed out my accelerator pump diaphragm the other day and the Steel round part in the middle was rusted. it was from crappy ethanol fuel. and a small hole in the rubber too.

With the 7.5 injectors installed now and my map for E 10 with the 5.3 injectors tuned to 13.2 loaded into the ECM , the leanest Afr I saw was 16.2
It took forever to get to 160 F engine temp with no fans idling .
I took it to 240 F deg engine temp under load with the fans on .
The engine temp dropped to 200 F in less than five min idling with the fans on.
Throttle response has changed , as has the sound of the exhaust .

Quote from: strokerjlk on February 28, 2014, 06:55:22 PM
With the 7.5 injectors installed now and my map for E 10 with the 5.3 injectors tuned to 13.2 loaded into the ECM , the leanest Afr I saw was 16.2
It took forever to get to 160 F engine temp with no fans idling .
I took it to 240 F deg engine temp under load with the fans on .
The engine temp dropped to 200 F in less than five min idling with the fans on.
Throttle response has changed , as has the sound of the exhaust .

was the exhaust blowing cold as well even as head temp where getting to 200?

Quote from: WideWildGlide on February 28, 2014, 08:29:42 PM

Quote from: strokerjlk on February 28, 2014, 06:55:22 PM
With the 7.5 injectors installed now and my map for E 10 with the 5.3 injectors tuned to 13.2 loaded into the ECM , the leanest Afr I saw was 16.2
It took forever to get to 160 F engine temp with no fans idling .
I took it to 240 F deg engine temp under load with the fans on .
The engine temp dropped to 200 F in less than five min idling with the fans on.
Throttle response has changed , as has the sound of the exhaust .

was the exhaust blowing cold as well even as head temp where getting to 200?

i didn't notice. i was looking over some other data.

I was just asking because I had test motor a stock 103 with just boarzilla ,se heavy breather  and it was same way I didn't have a way too check a/f at that time i just stuck some 6.2(i belive is what Harley sells for 62mm) and ran the  5%over the factory map and use stock injector size set to stock the a/f at 14 was just BS in the shop just testing my home brew, the problem i see is running too cold i know oncar they enter the water box when there at 160 and try not to stage till atleast 180

Luckily where I live I don't even have to use e10.  ethanol ruins stuff that is hard to replace/repair.

Quote from: GARYD on February 26, 2014, 09:57:37 AM
What about pricing???

Cedar Rapids Ia on 3-28-14 the E85 was priced at $2.459,  87 octane E10 was $3.21, 87 octane non-ethanol was $3.49 I believe.

The only corrision we've noticed is mainly on rubber, needles and the rubber gaskets on the adjustable carb log. But then again, even gasoline rots those so, you have to take it for what its worth, and imo, e85 is worth every penny .... 

There is only one reason Ethanol is cheaper than gasoline and that is the government subsidy. The tax payers are picking up the tab. I submit that anyone who intentionally uses E-gas is a liberal democrat.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/29/9804028-6-billion-a-year-ethanol-subsidy-dies-but-wait-theres-more

What about the 6 gals of water it takes to make one gal of pure Ethanol? Who pays for that and the cleanup required before it goes back into the eco system?
Now I'm starting to sound like a tree hugging bunny fornicator.
Bye

Yep it all a government scam.  We don't need no stinkin' alternative fuels!  Ethanol is bad for America.  Why would the oil companies lie to us?  A Baptist preacher told me ethanol will destroy my engine and he says God talks to him.  Worst of all if I bought some to experiment with, for more power and cooler running, I'd be stereotyped as a tree hugging liberal supporter of gay rights.  Worse yet I might be accused of thinking for myself.

2.59 a gal....

in order for company to produce ethanol as fuel source in the US it has to pass Government requirement on ethanol as fuel base product which ATF has the guidelines for this, on how to beomce a  legal manufacturer and the taxs require to do so, which goses of how many gallon you produce in a month or year cant remember which if i recall is high as $0.75 cent/ per gallon, to be use as a fuel source it has to have methnaole mix in, or other stuff to make the finally product undrinkable, also you can not mix petroleum product with ethanol till  it is 200 proof, highest ive seen a stills can get, that ive seen is 194 proof there still 6% water in there you can run as low as 160 proof in a motor the waste product is usually sold to farm to mix in with feed so it usually reused that before the Methanol is put into it,

ive talk to farmer befor that used it in generator and cars that havnt switch over to bio-diesel  that made hes on using black molasses this was awhile ago(3-4 year ago)at time it was $100-$140/ ton he mix water i believe at 50/50 because the molasses he had had to high of a sugar the best yeast on the market  eat that much sugar  if i recalled right he took 55 gallon drum of 50/50 mixture  and could make usually 20-26 gallon of 180-190 proof also a 55 gallon drum of pure black molasses in 55 gallon drum came in at 700-800 pounds if i recalled the way he got ride of the water was to run it thought a corn mesh for 24 hour to absorbed the water after ward he strain it and use the corn mesh to find hes cattle/ or to make him a batch for himself to enjoy this for folk try figure out prices
     
      ethanol is nothing new F1/nascar other race sport have used it at one time and the added benefited usually out weight the bad sorry i wrote this early so for the people saying its a waste to tax pays or its the devil's fuel and bla bla so on, in all honest its a better fuel source and its made in the US using stock pile of corn or other crops

Quote from: WideWildGlide on March 02, 2014, 10:53:34 AM
ok some thing i think people should consider, one most company are forced to add atleast 10% ethanol to there gas yes you can find 87 with 0% percent ethanol but it hard but then again i know few gas station have 100 or 104 octane gas at the pump as well also rare in some case, in order for company to produce ethanol they must make it the same way a moonshiner dose only catch is in order for corn/sweet feed/stale bread/chicken feed/honey/molasses/ any pretty of other thing you can add sugar to anything do some research, how every to pass Government requirement on ethanol as fuel base product which ATF has the guidelines, for become a manufactor and the taxs require to pay which goses of how many gallon you produce in a month or year cant remember which if i recale is high as $0.75 cent/ per gallon, to use it usually none usable to a human body now during the practice of adding Methanol or other stuff is add by ATF requirement you to to make the finally product undrinkable by humans also you can not mix petroleum product with ethanol till is 200 proof, highest ive seen a stills can get it that ive seen is 194 proof there still 6% water in there you can run as low as 160 proof in a motor the wasted product is usually sold to farm to mix in with feed so it usually reused that before the Methanol is put into it, i talk to guy once that made hes on using black molasses this was awhile ago(3-4 year ago)at time it was $100-$140/ ton he mix water i belive at 50/50 because the molasses he had had to high of a sugar the best yeast on the market  eat that much sugar  if i recalled right he took 55 gallon drum of 50/50 mixture  and could make usually 20-26 gallon of 180-190 proof also a 55 gallon drum of pure black molasses came in at 700-800 pounds if i recalled the way he got ride of the water was to run it thought a corn mesh for 24 hour to absorbed the water after ward he strain it and use the corn mesh to find hes cattle/ or to make him a batch for himself to enjoy ethanol is nothing new F1/nascar other race sport have used it at one time and the added benefited usually out weight the bad

did he say??

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/News/RightsNews/14-01-30/Farm_Bill_provision_prohibits_REAP_grants_for_the_purchase_and_installation_of_special_ethanol_blender_pumps-691302362.aspx

Quote from: Bill in OKC on March 02, 2014, 05:30:00 PM

http://www.Americanmotorcyclist.com/News/RightsNews/14-01-30/Farm_Bill_provision_prohibits_REAP_grants_for_the_purchase_and_installation_of_special_ethanol_blender_pumps-691302362.aspx

i agree with this, but here why ,for something that was set-up to run on only 10% and that already runs lean you would burn  something up running 15% ethanol, most people are not going run out and buy a fuel controller for anything  btw  Stoichimetric is 14.6 for  straight gasoline ,14.3 for E10  13.5 for E25, and E100 is 9 to 1

Quote from: tdkkart on March 02, 2014, 11:26:52 AM

Quote from: WideWildGlide on March 02, 2014, 10:53:34 AM
ok some thing i think people should consider, one most company are forced to add atleast 10% ethanol to there gas yes you can find 87 with 0% percent ethanol but it hard but then again i know few gas station have 100 or 104 octane gas at the pump as well also rare in some case, in order for company to produce ethanol they must make it the same way a moonshiner dose only catch is in order for corn/sweet feed/stale bread/chicken feed/honey/molasses/ any pretty of other thing you can add sugar to anything do some research, how every to pass Government requirement on ethanol as fuel base product which ATF has the guidelines, for become a manufactor and the taxs require to pay which goses of how many gallon you produce in a month or year cant remember which if i recale is high as $0.75 cent/ per gallon, to use it usually none usable to a human body now during the practice of adding Methanol or other stuff is add by ATF requirement you to to make the finally product undrinkable by humans also you can not mix petroleum product with ethanol till is 200 proof, highest ive seen a stills can get it that ive seen is 194 proof there still 6% water in there you can run as low as 160 proof in a motor the wasted product is usually sold to farm to mix in with feed so it usually reused that before the Methanol is put into it, i talk to guy once that made hes on using black molasses this was awhile ago(3-4 year ago)at time it was $100-$140/ ton he mix water i belive at 50/50 because the molasses he had had to high of a sugar the best yeast on the market  eat that much sugar  if i recalled right he took 55 gallon drum of 50/50 mixture  and could make usually 20-26 gallon of 180-190 proof also a 55 gallon drum of pure black molasses came in at 700-800 pounds if i recalled the way he got ride of the water was to run it thought a corn mesh for 24 hour to absorbed the water after ward he strain it and use the corn mesh to find hes cattle/ or to make him a batch for himself to enjoy ethanol is nothing new F1/nascar other race sport have used it at one time and the added benefited usually out weight the bad

did he say??


  HUH! - Sorry, very hard to understand.              

Alcohol is and has been a great fuel for racing industry. It has never through many many studies ever been more economical as an everyday automotive fuel unless you can buy it for 50 cents a gallon. The more ethanol in the mix the less mileage you can get. I have made a bunch of tests on my truck driving to and from my west Texas deer lease. Always get at least 4 MPG better on pure gas over E10 and the pump prices are virtually the same. If I were to run E85 that mileage number would be more like 10 or 12mpg difference as compared to real gas. For someone driving a car or truck for 200K miles every 5 years it makes a pretty good difference in fuel costs not to mention the possible repair costs that Ethanol causes on older vehicles.
http://pure-gas.org/