HarleyTechTalk

I (finally) wrapped up 6 "bike" amps tests and here are the results...

First off, my thanks to:
Gannicus
DirtRacin23
Haze324
Biketronics

to provide me with their amps for testing...

A couple of notes.

a. DISCLAIMER!!! results cannot be held against me LOL. Keep in mind your ears are different from mine or my dog... I have tried to stay with facts as much as possible and stay objective
b. my results regarding FM reception applies only to the amp I tested. so no guarantees
c. all tests are done ON THE BIKE, powered by the bike (while running). Overall amps will produce higher Wattage with higher input power voltage
d. when you dial in your amp, I STRONGLY suggest so doing this while the Bike Runs (Idle is fine). My tests have concluded that if you dial the amp in on the bike with the engine not running, the amp will distort/clip at the same volume level you used when setting the gains when you run your bike.
e. the actual RMS value was sitting between 2 values most of the times, so I could not get the EXACT value. Results are showing the lower value, no clipping. therefore the RMS Watt m (up to 5-10Watt, depending on amp)
f. PA RZ4-2000D IS THE SS PN4.520D ("identical") - so you know 
g. I have no relationship with any of the Vendors of the below tested amps
h. It is a known fact that speakers are at least 50% if not more of your sound system... you can have a 10000 USD amp with crappy speakers and the system will sound like S....
i. I have worked with BT to find a reason why I could not read out the 2 ohm RMS Watt on both the BT2180 and 4180. We - Bill an I - are at a loss at this point in time as BT burns their amps in with a bank of resistors. Also, the amp does play very well on my 2 ohm speakers so it has to be something very specific.

Below the ("average") RMS Wattage results in no particular order - more details etc are in the attachments.
the value behind the amp name is the claimed RMS power at given impedance):

4-channel amps

BT4180 (180W @ 4 ohm; BT claimes unofficial ~220W @ 2ohm)
2 ohm: not measured - see test report for more details
4 ohm: ~150Watt

PPI P4.900 (225W @ 2 ohm)
2 ohm: ~220Watt
4 ohm: ~150Watt

PA RZ4-2000D (specs call out for 250W at 2 ohm, which is complete BS as we all know)
2 ohm: ~140Watt
4 ohm: ~91Watt

NVX NVPA4 (100W @ 2 ohm)
2 ohm: ~107Watt
4 ohm: ~62Watt


2-channel amps

BT2180 (180W @ 4 ohm; BT claimes unofficial ~220W @ 2ohm)
2 ohm: not measured - see test report for more details
4 ohm: ~150Watt

RF T400x2 AD (200W at 2 ohm; birthsheet of amp showed 291 at 2 ohm)
2 ohm: ~260Watt
4 ohm: ~150Watt

Bottom line: none of the amps above (RZ4 is exception) are way off their specs... keep in mind the manufacturer probably uses different bench test tools and probably a stabilized power supply at 14.4V (or more) ...

Hope this helps all (or some) of you guys to make a decision now or in the future or confirm you made the right (or wrong LOL) decision.

Thank you for your time on this. This really helped me out knowing I have a good amp. I have the BT 4180 I am happy with this amp. Thanks again my friend for your time.

 

Thanx for all your work AAWAV.  It is greatly appreciated.

Glad I was able to contribute in at least a small way.

Quote from: dirtracin23 on January 26, 2015, 04:16:19 PM


Thanx for all your work AAWAV.  It is greatly appreciated.

Glad I was able to contribute in at least a small way.

yep - a. in the fairing and b. 4 channel.... so far (that has been on my bench) nothing beats the BT4180 from a performance perspective.
you did good my friend...

Thanks for performing the test and sharing the data. 

excellent work sir!  thank you..   

Awesome write up!  Just for clarification, the measurements on the BT 2180 should be 1.8" (1 13/16") x 5" x 5 3/8" (to the nearest 1/16")... the protrusion from the part the connections are made.  And that makes all the difference when space is critical.  Hope that helps someone that's in the same boat that I'm in.   

Quote from: Low Down on January 26, 2015, 05:58:31 PM
Awesome write up!  Just for clarification, the measurements on the BT 2180 should be 1.8" (1 13/16") x 5" x 5 3/8" (to the nearest 1/16")... the protrusion from the part the connections are made.  And that makes all the difference when space is critical.  Hope that helps someone that's in the same boat that I'm in.

thanks - will fix tomorrow

Nicely done AAWAV!!!   
I was looking to see if you included the PN4.520 (which was delivered here today) and came across your test on the PA RZ4-2000D.  Very interesting. 
I read them all.

AAWAV, the dimensions you gave are on par with what BT provides.  I just wanted to throw it out there because some of us may need to conserve what we use to install a system on their bike.

BTW, what did you do to hook up a 10 gauge wire to what I believe is a 14 gauge power/ground lead?

That one struck me as well. 12 or I even think TBH 14awg power wire coming with bt... I bench tested so I used wire nuts lol. I would solder 10 to biggest wire that fits the clip on the amp and heat wrap shrink it...

I just wanted to thank AAWAV for doing this, it is really cool. 

We have been testing competitors "motorcycle" amps for years so we have numbers but it is great to see an impartial test in the real world.  We need to get him some some other brands to try.

I am not sure what is going on with the 2 ohm tests, we run 2 ohm speakers and also 4 ohm speakers in parallel (up to 8 speakers on the 4180) on dozens of bikes.  And we burn in every 2180 and 4180 at full power on a 2 ohm load for about 45 mins before it gets shipped.  I will try to recreate the test here to see what happens.  But I would not worry about it from a customer standpoint, many of you are running a 2180 or 4180 at two ohms now.

Bill

Quote from: Biketronics Inc. on January 27, 2015, 10:31:47 AM
I just wanted to thank AAWAV for doing this, it is really cool. 

We have been testing competitors "motorcycle" amps for years so we have numbers but it is great to see an impartial test in the real world.  We need to get him some some other brands to try.

I am not sure what is going on with the 2 ohm tests, we run 2 ohm speakers and also 4 ohm speakers in parallel (up to 8 speakers on the 4180) on dozens of bikes.  And we burn in every 2180 and 4180 at full power on a 2 ohm load for about 45 mins before it gets shipped.  I will try to recreate the test here to see what happens.  But I would not worry about it from a customer standpoint, many of you are running a 2180 or 4180 at two ohms now.

Bill

Thanks Bill - for those that might doubt the 2 ohm "thingy" ... ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE... I ran both BT amps on my 2 ohm JBLs (LOUD!!!) and no issue at all... as Bill stated, many run the 4180 with 8 speakers (2 x 4 ohm parallel, resulting into 2 ohm per channel) or the BT2180 with 4 speakers. These amps are top notch, high quality build - I just don't care for the wire clips LOL as stated in the reviews, but that's just me being "picky"...

Thanks
That's why with the SS PN4.520D on their website they list the power at 130 watts at 2 ohms which as per your testing is almost spot on.

actually a bit over  on 2 ohm load

Quote from: AAWAV on January 27, 2015, 10:42:57 AM

Quote from: Biketronics Inc. on January 27, 2015, 10:31:47 AM
I just wanted to thank AAWAV for doing this, it is really cool. 

We have been testing competitors "motorcycle" amps for years so we have numbers but it is great to see an impartial test in the real world.  We need to get him some some other brands to try.

I am not sure what is going on with the 2 ohm tests, we run 2 ohm speakers and also 4 ohm speakers in parallel (up to 8 speakers on the 4180) on dozens of bikes.  And we burn in every 2180 and 4180 at full power on a 2 ohm load for about 45 mins before it gets shipped.  I will try to recreate the test here to see what happens.  But I would not worry about it from a customer standpoint, many of you are running a 2180 or 4180 at two ohms now.

Bill

Thanks Bill - for those that might doubt the 2 ohm "thingy" ... ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE... I ran both BT amps on my 2 ohm JBLs (LOUD!!!) and no issue at all... as Bill stated, many run the 4180 with 8 speakers (2 x 4 ohm parallel, resulting into 2 ohm per channel) or the BT2180 with 4 speakers. These amps are top notch, high quality build - I just don't care for the wire clips LOL as stated in the reviews, but that's just me being "picky"...

I have to stand by you on the wire clips it took me over an hour to get them dam wires out. That is the only thing I would change on the amps. I did take the plastic ends off the wires and put new ones on then I put shrink tube on them so no bare metal at all. Thanks again.

AAWAV:

In your opinion (and following on with the review you did of the RF TX4002AD), would the RF TX4004AD be a better choice to run two sets of speakers (all are 4 ohm, running in parallel: BT7P1/BT 471 off the front channel and Pioneer TS-1602R/TS-6902R off the rear channel)?

Given the fact that the RF T400X4AD (and their new TM400X4AD, a conformal coated version) is pretty CLOSE in price to the BT 4180, I'm curious about which might be the best choice for me...if I had the former I'd send it to you for bench-testing.

Quote from: vhmike73 on January 29, 2015, 07:00:31 PM
AAWAV:

In your opinion (and following on with the review you did of the RF TX4002AD), would the RF TX4004AD be a better choice to run two sets of speakers (all are 4 ohm, running in parallel: BT7P1/BT 471 off the front channel and Pioneer TS-1602R/TS-6902R off the rear channel)?

Given the fact that the RF T400X4AD (and their new TM400X4AD, a conformal coated version) is pretty CLOSE in price to the BT 4180, I'm curious about which might be the best choice for me...if I had the former I'd send it to you for bench-testing.

Mike - I have not tested (yet) the 400x4. as the x2 claimed 200W / channel and B sheet had 291 on it and me measuring 260 ish what at 2 ohm. I can only imagine - again IMAGINE - the x4 coming out as 520-580 total. I would assume the amp internals are more or less the same but then Watts spliot over 4 channels... that would be 130-145 ish per channel.
I would go with BT4180 if you want it in the fairing (remember lifetime warranty!!!!! and plenty of power...). IMHO the PPI 4.900 (I assume TN4.900 is the "same") give you the best bang for the buck but it does not fit in the fairing... arrrgghhhh. that thing pounded... and has all the gains/controls you can imaging

Thanks for the input AAWAV....I am looking at the BT4180 (that lifetime warranty is nothing to sneeze at!!) via the Group Buy that's being worked.

And yes: a powerful 4 channel amp that fits in the fairing is vital...even though truthfully the Tour Pak almost never comes off my Street Glide. I still tend to use most if not all space in there often, so I don't really like the idea of putting an amp in. I could save plenty of cash and keep the Razor PN4.2000D in the fairing and install the SS PN4.520D in the Pak and have that power my Rear channels: but again, it's more a lack of interest in losing space than doubt about the amp capabilities!!

not much difference between PPI 4.900 and RZ4 from a dimensions perspective. about 2 inch deeper...
I dry fitted the PPI in the Batwing (13) and it fits between the brackets on top of the radio. only problem is it is about .75 to 1 inch too deep, not allowing the "hood" to close and that is only on the left and right front facing corners on the amp
with that said, if you want a POWERFUL amp and want to put into a bag, go with the PPI.

Alternative would be 2 x 2180 or 1 4180. they'll run 8 4 ohms easily.

why do you think the PPI P4.900 clipped when the Bike was running?

Quote from: Makdaddy on February 08, 2015, 08:13:15 AM
why do you think the PPI P4.900 clipped when the Bike was running?

did I miss something? I must be off here LOL...

From your PDF File

"With this amp – and I expect all amps – you need to dial in while running the bike! I dialed in the gains not running
first and then checked the signal while running... it was clipping..."

  got it....
when bike runs it will provide higher voltage to the amp... therefore more output Power to speakers...
f.e. I tested the RZ4 with bike running and not running and noticed significant difference between the 2 (I can recall at 4 ohm 65W-ish versus 91W) and the gains had to be adjusted as well.

wonder what's going on with that NVX amp.  No one has them in stock including Amazon and Cycle Sounds has pulled their over-priced unit off their website as well.