HarleyTechTalk

I recently bought a 2007 RK that only has 1700 miles on it.

I have a brand new Bagger Brace that the previous owner of the bike bought & never got around to installing.  He is a friend of mine and gave me the brace with the bike.

http://bitchinbaggers.com/products/bagger-brace/

Looking it up, it looks like a decent product.  I am just wondering if there is any good reason NOT to install it.

~John

If you have it and it was free I see no reason to improve pre 08 frames it can't hurt

Quote from: moose on April 23, 2015, 04:13:34 AM
If you have it and it was free I see no reason to improve pre 08 frames it can't hurt

I see no reason not to install it on later frames also since the rear construction on the later frames appears weaker..

Oops   

Moose and Max  Your replies leave me wondering what your answer really is?? 
To me its very easy, PUT the brace on!!
No brainer in my book.  Buffalo

Quote from: Buffalo on April 23, 2015, 08:43:55 AM
Moose and Max  Your replies leave me wondering what your answer really is?? 
To me its very easy, PUT the brace on!!
No brainer in my book.  Buffalo

Fixed

If it's free and fits your bike and you think you need it, put it on. No reason to absolutely NOT put it on unless you want to sell it yourself. I had an 07 StreetGlide and did not trade it in until I had 95,000 miles on it. The only time I felt it go squirrelly was when it needed new tires. I know the bike felt even better when new but it was still fine at that mileage. I've often wondered if simply replacing worn parts on the stock frame would cure anything that needed a bagger brace, you know? Kind of like putting new shocks on an old car. Just get it back to newer condition.

John, I have the same unit on my '08 Street Glide. I really didn't have any issues with the bike, but felt it can't hurt to have it. I take some wide sweepers pretty fast at times, just some insurance. 

I've put more money in my 05 Glide than I care to admit. The Bitchin Bagger brace is some of the best money I've spent on it. If you decide not to use it let me know how much you want for it.

Rick

Quote from: Eglider05 on April 23, 2015, 11:33:37 AM
. The Bitchin Bagger brace is some of the best money I've spent on it.

I will keep the brace & install it.

Since nobody has anything negative to say about it, I will install it as soon as I get a few free minutes to work on it (I am working on 2 other Harleys right now, so the brace will have to wait a while)

Thanks to everyone for the responses :-)

~John

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 23, 2015, 07:31:06 AM

Quote from: moose on April 23, 2015, 04:13:34 AM
If you have it and it was free I see no reason to improve pre 08 frames it can't hurt

I see no reason not to install it on later frames also since the rear construction on the later frames appears weaker..

Oops   

Appearances can be deceiving.  You've suggested the weakness a couple times now.  How much time do you have on the newer frames?  I've got time on them both.  More now on the newer than the older.  There's no comparison; new is better by a fair margin.  Feels a lot stronger than the old frame.

Quote from: glens on April 23, 2015, 05:30:58 PM

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 23, 2015, 07:31:06 AM

Quote from: moose on April 23, 2015, 04:13:34 AM
If you have it and it was free I see no reason to improve pre 08 frames it can't hurt

I see no reason not to install it on later frames also since the rear construction on the later frames appears weaker..

Oops   

Appearances can be deceiving.  You've suggested the weakness a couple times now.  How much time do you have on the newer frames?  I've got time on them both.  More now on the newer than the older.  There's no comparison; new is better by a fair margin.  Feels a lot stronger than the old frame.

I've only spent a little time on the newer framed bikes.. Enough to know that it's not the frame that make em handle better.. They can handle as bad as the older bikes.. Some of that "feel" is the frame but it's not stronger.. If you think it's the strength then you are pretty naive.. Still has the same flex points.. If you don't know what the differences are then, ride the later model.. HD hit a home run there.. How else are they going to get the guys with older models to upgrade?  BTW,, HD doesn't claim their frame to be stronger, only more manufacturable... What makes you think it is? Stability?

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 23, 2015, 09:08:14 PM

Quote from: glens on April 23, 2015, 05:30:58 PM

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 23, 2015, 07:31:06 AM

Quote from: moose on April 23, 2015, 04:13:34 AM
If you have it and it was free I see no reason to improve pre 08 frames it can't hurt

I see no reason not to install it on later frames also since the rear construction on the later frames appears weaker..

Oops   

Appearances can be deceiving.  You've suggested the weakness a couple times now.  How much time do you have on the newer frames?  I've got time on them both.  More now on the newer than the older.  There's no comparison; new is better by a fair margin.  Feels a lot stronger than the old frame.

I've only spent a little time on the newer framed bikes.. Enough to know that it's not the frame that make em handle better.. They can handle as bad as the older bikes.. Some of that "feel" is the frame but it's not stronger.. If you think it's the strength then you are pretty naive.. Still has the same flex points.. If you don't know what the differences are then, ride the later model.. HD hit a home run there.. How else are they going to get the guys with older models to upgrade?  BTW,, HD doesn't claim their frame to be stronger, only more manufacturable... What makes you think it is? Stability?

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 23, 2015, 09:08:14 PM

Quote from: glens on April 23, 2015, 05:30:58 PM

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 23, 2015, 07:31:06 AM

Quote from: moose on April 23, 2015, 04:13:34 AM
If you have it and it was free I see no reason to improve pre 08 frames it can't hurt

I see no reason not to install it on later frames also since the rear construction on the later frames appears weaker..

Oops   

Appearances can be deceiving.  You've suggested the weakness a couple times now.  How much time do you have on the newer frames?  I've got time on them both.  More now on the newer than the older.  There's no comparison; new is better by a fair margin.  Feels a lot stronger than the old frame.

I've only spent a little time on the newer framed bikes.. Enough to know that it's not the frame that make em handle better.. They can handle as bad as the older bikes.. Some of that "feel" is the frame but it's not stronger.. If you think it's the strength then you are pretty naive.. Still has the same flex points.. If you don't know what the differences are then, ride the later model.. HD hit a home run there.. How else are they going to get the guys with older models to upgrade?  BTW,, HD doesn't claim their frame to be stronger, only more manufacturable... What makes you think it is? Stability?

Not naive at all.  And I'm not the only one who's not.  And I don't believe I implied it was only the increased strength that offered the improvements.  That inference is your straw man here.

I looked through the MY Technical Forum but didn't see what I was looking for.  I did find a link with a quote from a Harley (or was it Davidson? .. I closed the tab and lost the link) but he didn't specifically use the word (or a synonym) "stronger".  But it was definitely implied.  Here are a couple quickly-found references:

Cycle World:

QuoteBut there have been a few ongoing complaints, primarily relating to chassis behavior. Which is why the big news for 2009 is a new frame. This is a complete redesign to improve handling, simplify manufacturing and produce a more dimensionally accurate structure to hang all those other road-ready elements we have become so fond of.

A primary effort of the redesign was to create a stronger torsional relationship between the steering head and swingarm pivot, and aft of that, with the rear axle. Forged frame elements in key areas mate with deep stampings and steel tubes, all leading up to the investment-cast steering head and a large sheet-steel backbone. A reduction in the number of welds and an improvement in (and automation of) the welding process lead to better dimensional stability. The new swingarm with forged pivot section is also stronger.

Motorcyclist:

QuoteThe old frame, which could make the original tourers feel a little rickety, especially when loaded, used over 90 parts. The new frame uses just 40 parts. On the whole, the touring chassis received 450 changes, all born from the engineering team's first move of stretching the wheelbase. The idea was to improve the bikes' stability and tracking without losing the legendary low-speed rideablity.

...

The newly minted, robotically welded modular frame, longer wheelbase and wider, longer, stiffer swingarm make a huge difference, providing a safer, more enjoyable ride. Plus the new design allows a 70-pound boost to the GVWR, as well as a slightly increased bank angle.

Longer, heavier, and can carry more weight beyond its own.  It's definitely stronger.  Trust me...  But what do I know?  I don't have an engineering degree and I only have about 38,000 miles on the newer chassis.

If you can believe it, the rolling package is markedly improved yet further with the Rushmores.

I don't have an engineering degree, I have an 08 FLHX with a True Track and also ride a buddy's '14 FLHX. My 08 when new had a tiny bit of rear wheel wiggle when pushed, it doesn't have that anymore. I don't know why the TT fixed it and I don't care. I like my bike much better than a '14. Don't care that the "new" frame is different, it was made to be cheaper to produce, NOT stiffer. The 2nd front motor mount probably is the reason for the tighter feeling. Either way I'd put the brace on, they work!

Quote from: glens on April 24, 2015, 05:46:30 PM

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 23, 2015, 09:08:14 PM

Quote from: glens on April 23, 2015, 05:30:58 PM

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 23, 2015, 07:31:06 AM

Quote from: moose on April 23, 2015, 04:13:34 AM
If you have it and it was free I see no reason to improve pre 08 frames it can't hurt

I see no reason not to install it on later frames also since the rear construction on the later frames appears weaker..

Oops   

Appearances can be deceiving.  You've suggested the weakness a couple times now.  How much time do you have on the newer frames?  I've got time on them both.  More now on the newer than the older.  There's no comparison; new is better by a fair margin.  Feels a lot stronger than the old frame.

I've only spent a little time on the newer framed bikes.. Enough to know that it's not the frame strength that make em handle better.. They can handle as bad as the older bikes.. Some of that "feel" is the frame but it's not stronger.. If you think it's the strength then you are pretty naive.. Still has the same flex points.. If you don't know what the differences are then, ride the later model.. HD hit a home run there.. How else are they going to get the guys with older models to upgrade?  BTW,, HD doesn't claim their frame to be stronger, only more manufacturable... What makes you think it is? Stability?

Not naive at all.  And I'm not the only one who's not.  And I don't believe I implied it was only the increased strength that offered the improvements.  That inference is your straw man here.

I looked through the MY Technical Forum but didn't see what I was looking for.  I did find a link with a quote from a Harley (or was it Davidson? .. I closed the tab and lost the link) but he didn't specifically use the word (or a synonym) "stronger".  But it was definitely implied.  Here are a couple quickly-found references:

Cycle World:

QuoteBut there have been a few ongoing complaints, primarily relating to chassis behavior. Which is why the big news for 2009 is a new frame. This is a complete redesign to improve handling, simplify manufacturing and produce a more dimensionally accurate structure to hang all those other road-ready elements we have become so fond of.

A primary effort of the redesign was to create a stronger torsional relationship between the steering head and swingarm pivot, and aft of that, with the rear axle. Forged frame elements in key areas mate with deep stampings and steel tubes, all leading up to the investment-cast steering head and a large sheet-steel backbone. A reduction in the number of welds and an improvement in (and automation of) the welding process lead to better dimensional stability. The new swingarm with forged pivot section is also stronger.

Motorcyclist:

QuoteThe old frame, which could make the original tourers feel a little rickety, especially when loaded, used over 90 parts. The new frame uses just 40 parts. On the whole, the touring chassis received 450 changes, all born from the engineering team's first move of stretching the wheelbase. The idea was to improve the bikes' stability and tracking without losing the legendary low-speed rideablity.

...

The newly minted, robotically welded modular frame, longer wheelbase and wider, longer, stiffer swingarm make a huge difference, providing a safer, more enjoyable ride. Plus the new design allows a 70-pound boost to the GVWR, as well as a slightly increased bank angle.

Longer, heavier, and can carry more weight beyond its own.  It's definitely stronger.  Trust me...  But what do I know?  I don't have an engineering degree and I only have about 38,000 miles on the newer chassis.

If you can believe it, the rolling package is markedly improved yet further with the Rushmores.

Ok I could have made my statement about the frame clearer.. See red..

So stronger [frame] is really not the word you want to chose(yellow)... Stabler might be better?  Stronger and stiffness are closer to stabler and stronger and your choice of words was poor.  And the change to the frame that make it stabler is not the ass end..

What goes that have to do with the ass end of the frame? You seemed to imply that adding the device on a later model bike wouldn't help stiffen the ass end of the frame.  Is that a straw man??   

Quote from: Max Headflow on April 24, 2015, 07:16:47 PMSo stronger [frame] is really not the word you want to chose(yellow)... Stabler might be better?  Stronger and stiffness are closer to stabler and stronger and your choice of words was poor.  And the change to the frame that make it stabler is not the ass end..

What goes that have to do with the ass end of the frame? You seemed to imply that adding the device on a later model bike wouldn't help stiffen the ass end of the frame.  Is that a straw man??   

Although the newer rolling chassis is definitely more stable, the handling is also quicker, so I don't think the stability is attributable to the greater amount of trail in the front end.  That would more typically make the handling slower.  Adding trail was probably done later in the redesign process rather than earlier.

I'm using the notion "strong" to denote that the swingarm pivots are better held in position relative to the steering neck.  Even while carrying more weight on the rear of the bike which as we both know would tend to exacerbate unwanted relative motion between the two pivot points.

Will adding a chassis link to the newer bikes hurt anything?  No.

Is it necessary?  No.

The frames are easier to make and they are stronger.  Evidently in part right through the area you suggest they might not be.

QuoteThat would more typically make the handling slower.

It always does if it's the only thing changed..

I can say that I know the guy who makes the bagger brace, ride with sometimes and he is making one for new models if not already.