HarleyTechTalk

I try to take it easy on my S&S 124 until the oil has had a chance to warm up.

Measuring oil temp from a  Dakota Digital gauge & running 10-60 Moly oil (& Oil Bud cooler & Flo filter) , it takes a really long time to get up to 185* or so now that weather in upstate NY is cooling off.

What temp do you guys think would be considered "warmed up"??

~John

No science to back it up but when the thermometer on my shovel's tank hits 180+ I figure it's there. I have no device on the TC to let me know so I try to do at least 10 miles (a nice round number I pulled out from ... somewhere) before an oil change.

For me the thought process that the oil must show 212F to boil off water is misleading. Just because the in-tank oil is reading under the boiling point doesn't tell us how hot it gets in the heads. I don't think you need to boil it to evaporate it anyhow.

Your 124 only getting to 180F to me is more desirable than having it running at 250F. I tried various oil cooling methods over the years but for giggles I pulled the oil cooler of my S&S shovel and it tops out at about 200F. Of course you have to consider I live in MI. in warmer states I'd want the cooler back on. If I lived in the south I might be looking at additional cooling for my TC too.

Sorry, my caffeine has me rambling already. 

Mark

John,

I live in the same basic area as you (Syracuse). I take it easy as well until I get up to 160-180*f. Cooler bypass shut off this time of year takes me around 10-15 minutes in traffic or around 15 miles. I ride it but don't hammer it until I'm up to temp (Mobil 1 20-50) 103cu.

klammer

Historically, you need to get up above 180 for an extended time to boil off any moisture.
That's my trigger point before I exercise my wrist.

the internal temp of the motor is way higher than 212. the oil flows over the engine parts, it evaporates and is expelled out the breather. on a side note, after it rains, water will evaporate off the driveway at any temp. snow even evaporates at temps well below freezing.

Remember reading somewhere Harley's recommendation was "head hot to the touch". Usually start/idle while putting on gear/checking over bike, about 3 minutes, then off to the 1st stoplight 1mi away. By then the choke needs to come completely off (yes, old school). Oil gauge only reads about 125° or so. After the light changes I let her rip. 15yr old engine creeping up on 50k miles. Burns no oil.......yet.

Quote from: bagga on September 25, 2015, 06:16:34 AM
the internal temp of the motor is way higher than 212. the oil flows over the engine parts, it evaporates and is expelled out the breather. on a side note, after it rains, water will evaporate off the driveway at any temp. snow even evaporates at temps well below freezing.

Then why do you see guys that run their bikes cold all the time in town have corrosion issues and muck build up in their cases.
To a lesser extent with some of the new synthetics but pretty standard on Dino oils over the years.

Quote from: Nowhereman on September 25, 2015, 07:53:23 AM

Quote from: bagga on September 25, 2015, 06:16:34 AM
the internal temp of the motor is way higher than 212. the oil flows over the engine parts, it evaporates and is expelled out the breather. on a side note, after it rains, water will evaporate off the driveway at any temp. snow even evaporates at temps well below freezing.

Then why do you see guys that run their bikes cold all the time in town have corrosion issues and muck build up in their cases.
To a lesser extent with some of the new synthetics but pretty standard on Dino oils over the years.

Well, that comes under the heading of "normal operation". Stuck in traffic, or slow riding all the time is not normal, requiring more frequent oil changes. How often? More than they currently are. Motors like to get out and sing once in a while.

Quote from: Nowhereman on September 25, 2015, 07:53:23 AM

Quote from: bagga on September 25, 2015, 06:16:34 AM
the internal temp of the motor is way higher than 212. the oil flows over the engine parts, it evaporates and is expelled out the breather. on a side note, after it rains, water will evaporate off the driveway at any temp. snow even evaporates at temps well below freezing.

Then why do you see guys that run their bikes cold all the time in town have corrosion issues and muck build up in their cases.
To a lesser extent with some of the new synthetics but pretty standard on Dino oils over the years.

it takes the oil more than a couple of times cycled through the oil tank to dry out. 2-3 miles at a time bar hoppin' won't do it.

so now its not just about what type of oil, which we all know, goes on and on, you're telling me it has to be warm too! cheese and rice!!! FWIW, i fire it up, put on my gloves, check my stowage, get on her and go down the street, once i hit a main drag, regardless of where i may be, i am on it, if i am feeling it...here's more horror for some of you all, a new motor, initial start and break in, like everyone knows, then you change out the earl, i am all into any engine, if its gonnna break, its gonna break at 1 mile, 500, 5000, wherever...i have a hard time explaining what i understand, but a motor doesnt care about miles...it runs or it doesnt.  (i speak in generalities, we can get technical and statistically prove i am talking smack, but its like a dyno tune, the bike is in a certain environment that can never be replicated on the road, but it sure sounds good, 8k rear wheel power!!)

Quote from: bagga on September 25, 2015, 11:09:14 AM

Quote from: Nowhereman on September 25, 2015, 07:53:23 AM

Quote from: bagga on September 25, 2015, 06:16:34 AM
the internal temp of the motor is way higher than 212. the oil flows over the engine parts, it evaporates and is expelled out the breather. on a side note, after it rains, water will evaporate off the driveway at any temp. snow even evaporates at temps well below freezing.

Then why do you see guys that run their bikes cold all the time in town have corrosion issues and muck build up in their cases.
To a lesser extent with some of the new synthetics but pretty standard on Dino oils over the years.

it takes the oil more than a couple of times cycled through the oil tank to dry out. 2-3 miles at a time bar hoppin' won't do it.

True, our most "active drinking" buddy has the most trouble with his scoot.  lol

 180 deg is a good ballpark number, oil needs to operate @ just under the boiling point of water for elimination of combustion  byproducts, it also needs to thin and flow @ these temps ......I have always used the hand on a head or a touch of the oil bag old school system which is far from accurate  .......

I don't have a temp gauge, so one trick I've found works well for me, ... I start my bike, if I don't hear any screeching, I ride it.

Quote from: calgary56 on September 25, 2015, 08:47:39 PM
I don't have a temp gauge, so one trick I've found works well for me, ... I start my bike, if I don't hear any screeching, I ride it.

Calgary, your bike will never last very long if you continue to use that method! You only got 200,000+ miles out of your motor last time. We try and help, but you just won't listen.

Quote from: calgary56 on September 25, 2015, 08:47:39 PM
I don't have a temp gauge, so one trick I've found works well for me, ... I start my bike, if I don't hear any screeching, I ride it.

That doesn't work for me lots O times cause when I ride my tire screech.....

The boiling point of water is 100c 212f.  Water will not evaporate below this point.  I do agree that the temp of the oil in the tank is not a good representation of the temp of the oil in the engine.  Look at the newer baggers.  In order for the oil to pass over the temp dip stick.  It most of already flowed through the top shelf of baffles and on it's way through the bottom.  The bulbs are set in the bottom front of the pan and has been in the pan even longer.

I'm not a scientist but I have to disagree about water not evaporating below 212 degrees. In the 16 years I have lived here on the Oregon Coast it has never reached 212 degrees but for some reason the rain water evaporates anyway. Same as anywhere else I've lived.

At 212* (sea level) water can not maintain as a liquid and becomes a gas. It will however dissipate into a gas at lower temps as mentioned. This is the reason fuel tanks take on "water" through the vents. All "air" (depending on where you are) contains water molecules in suspension. At the freezing point it becomes a solid and falls away as snow for lack of a better word.

oil warming up enough to flow or warming up enough to boil off moisture is two different things. i know in my garage in the summer it's 95* and every quart of oil will pour very easy, so oil starts flowing very well at mild temps. boiling moisture off it will take a prolonged period of time at much higher temps to clear the oil of moisture. seen many a trucks at work that their whole life is spent ideling around never getting up to temp. you wouldn't believe the crap that comes out of the engine, radiators and even the power steering boxs. the steering box seals fail all the time because mositure lays right againest the seal and never gets to get warm enough to evaporate. that's why i never start my bike and run it for a short period of time whenit's cool outside.

Quote from: gryphon on September 26, 2015, 09:51:24 AM
I'm not a scientist but I have to disagree about water not evaporating below 212 degrees. In the 16 years I have lived here on the Oregon Coast it has never reached 212 degrees but for some reason the rain water evaporates anyway. Same as anywhere else I've lived.

The difference between evaporating and boiling off entrained water.   Evaporation happens at the surface and boiling happens every where else.  Water isn't sitting on the surface of oil in the tank.  It needs to be boiled off.

Quote from: calgary56 on September 25, 2015, 08:47:39 PM
I don't have a temp gauge, so one trick I've found works well for me, ... I start my bike, if I don't hear any screeching, I ride it.

   

I pull out of my road, I'm near the end of it, ride about 1/2 mile to the state route, then, like I stole it.

   so guys...what happens when your bikes oil temperature never hits 212*?
Mine might hit 200* with synthetic oil in it...after a 50 mile ride. 

Ray

Quote from: No Cents on September 27, 2015, 07:04:52 AM
   so guys...what happens when your bikes oil temperature never hits 212*?
Mine might hit 200* with synthetic oil in it...after a 50 mile ride. 

Ray

Anything over 175 will get rid of moisture. Standard aircraft practice.  Just takes longer then higher temps. When I flew my Champ 150 seemed to never clear the oil of moisture and below that moisture was always being added in colder days. It generally took one hour of flight time to clear existing moisture at a temp of 180. It was easy to witness the before and after on the dipstick if there was a buildup from a cold day flight before. White foam to no foam situation. Don't think it matter s whether it's syn or not.
As for minimum temp blast off. We look for the needle to come off the peg on the oil temp gauge, then WFO. I'd think as long as you can feel some warmth in the pan it should be fine in the case of a bike.
Ron

Quote from: No Cents on September 27, 2015, 07:04:52 AM
   so guys...what happens when your bikes oil temperature never hits 212*?
Mine might hit 200* with synthetic oil in it...after a 50 mile ride. 

Ray

Should be good to go. (time and temp play together with things like moisture boil off)
What was the air temp during that ride?
Cool? HOt?