Gaterman GP-1023 Lifters Long Term Wear

[harley#1]

what is the length of the pin, maybe a right size drill bit cut to length will work, sae or metric might get close enough.

[q1svt]

Just a thought... is this our problem to solve?

HTT has power and many contacts so why don't we use them...
Lets measure the different lifters that are sold/advertised as Harley Lifters
Then use that information and begin to contact those companies where we have a relatingship with, S&S, Woods, Fueling, Jims, Gaterman, etc and point out the problem and ask them for a fix.

Zippers clearly knows there is a problem and is providing a fix for a number of the lifter manufacturers but @ $32.00+ over the cost of premium lifter $$$$$ we've been buying, the companies need to know we know about the problem and/will communicate the issue by brand.    It gives them the ability to check their tolerances, and or offer sized pins or another correction at a fair price.

I believe that Harley Davidson needs to know that we know the 'C' lifters and their machining tolerances suck...  there are several HTT members that should be able to forward the information to their contacts too...   

[rbabos]

Might think about checking the hardness of a stocker before slipping a piece of that drill rod into your engine.

The anti-rotation pins that come stock appear to me to be hardened dowel pins.

Appearances can be deceiving. Drill rod is pretty damn hard, compared to the soft lifter body and the aluminium the pin sits in.
Ron

[rbabos]

Just a thought... is this our problem to solve?

HTT has power and many contacts so why don't we use them...
Lets measure the different lifters that are sold/advertised as Harley Lifters
Then use that information and begin to contact those companies where we have a relatingship with, S&S, Woods, Fueling, Jims, Gaterman, etc and point out the problem and ask them for a fix.

Zippers clearly knows there is a problem and is providing a fix for a number of the lifter manufacturers but @ $32.00+ over the cost of premium lifter $$$$$ we've been buying, the companies need to know we know about the problem and/will communicate the issue by brand.    It gives them the ability to check their tolerances, and or offer sized pins or another correction at a fair price.

I believe that Harley Davidson needs to know that we know the 'C' lifters and their machining tolerances suck...  there are several HTT members that should be able to forward the information to their contacts too...   

Pretty sure MoCo knows why they have the 2nd worst motorcycle rating. As long as people keep buying and the bottom line is doing well, not much will change.
Ron

[strokerjlk]

Might think about checking the hardness of a stocker before slipping a piece of that drill rod into your engine.

The anti-rotation pins that come stock appear to me to be hardened dowel pins.

Appearances can be deceiving. Drill rod is pretty damn hard, compared to the soft lifter body and the aluminium the pin sits in.
Ron

59.5 Rockwell on this drill rod 

[strokerjlk]

what is the length of the pin, maybe a right size drill bit cut to length will work, sae or metric might get close enough.

Drill bit . Just a little over 72 Rockwell

[rbabos]

That's a better drill bit then the crap I own.
Ron

[q1svt]

Pretty sure MoCo knows why they have the 2nd worst motorcycle rating. As long as people keep buying and the bottom line is doing well, not much will change.
Ron

I guess I was to subtle ... If FSG's measurements on the 'C' lifter is commend (more clearance than 'B' lifters), and as Joe_Lyon's is seeing this frosting of lifters on low mileage bikes with 'C' lifters, then anyone/everyone with a newer HD running 'C's should visit their dealer about lifter noise and asks about lifter to pin alignment clearances and frosting of the rollers.  Seems the only current fix HD has is to install another set under warranty... not a fix cause I would be back again with lifter noise    and yes again, again ...

Warranty dollars tend to get attention, yes it's HD but hey even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while.  I'm hope for a new SE Dog Bone for them lifter issues or at least a set of larger alignment pins.

[Billy]

Might think about checking the hardness of a stocker before slipping a piece of that drill rod into your engine.

The anti-rotation pins that come stock appear to me to be hardened dowel pins.

Appearances can be deceiving. Drill rod is pretty damn hard, compared to the soft lifter body and the aluminium the pin sits in.
Ron

59.5 Rockwell on this drill rod 

Could you check the HRC of a anti-rotation pin?

[Winston Wolf]

from Zippers   --  http://www.zippersperformance.com/media/wysiwyg/DownloadsPDFs/Red-Shift-Cams/RedShiftTCCamInstallationGuide_02262013.pdf

I rechecked these tappets the way this says to above.  Front was .008 and rear was .007 

[mike jesse]

I'll take a pin to work on Monday and check it for myself.
I'll build my own.
If you run into a tight one, a few swipes on the lifter body flat with a
quality stone just might bring it into spec.
A person could also use gauge pins to bring the clearance right on the money.
Gauge pins in this size range can be had for under $4 ea.
For you people without the means to make your own, I'd go that route.

[Billy]

If you run into a tight one, a few swipes on the lifter body flat with a
quality stone just might will bring it into spec.

Fixed it for you. Been there, done that. 

[mike jesse]

If you run into a tight one, a few swipes on the lifter body flat with a
quality stone just might will bring it into spec.

Fixed it for you. Been there, done that. 

There you go!

[FSG]

For reference purposes P/N 18535-99  Pin, Dowel, .250" x 1.750"

[Admiral Akbar]

Snip

Good luck finding drill rod that is any other size other than 0.250 or 0.277.. I suspect that Jim's caliper is off unless he found a place that will grind him some..
Drill rod that size is typically +- 0.0005  Not sure how he got 0.254.. 0,250 and 0.277 are standard sizes..

Max

Depends. Another option here. I see a .257 listed here. That could be slimmed down to suit with drill and 320.
http://www.tmtco.com/products/drill-rod-o1.html
Ron

We have .250 .255 .257 .258
I went through the stack until I found the smallest piece. 
Calipers are calibrated every 3 months for QS -ISO and corporate six sigma quality  .

Oops typo...  277 is really 257..

Well the caliper could have still had something between the jaws when you zeroed it..  If you had picked up a 0.257 rod and zeroed the caliper with 0.003 crap between the jaws,, Just guessing..    Where did you find the 0.255 rod?  Non STD size..

Max

[N-gin]

 

[strokerjlk]

Snip

Good luck finding drill rod that is any other size other than 0.250 or 0.277.. I suspect that Jim's caliper is off unless he found a place that will grind him some..
Drill rod that size is typically +- 0.0005  Not sure how he got 0.254.. 0,250 and 0.277 are standard sizes..

Max

Depends. Another option here. I see a .257 listed here. That could be slimmed down to suit with drill and 320.
http://www.tmtco.com/products/drill-rod-o1.html
Ron

We have .250 .255 .257 .258
I went through the stack until I found the smallest piece. 
Calipers are calibrated every 3 months for QS -ISO and corporate six sigma quality  .

Oops typo...  277 is really 257..

Well the caliper could have still had something between the jaws when you zeroed it..  If you had picked up a 0.257 rod and zeroed the caliper with 0.003 crap between the jaws,, Just guessing..    Where did you find the 0.255 rod?  Non STD size..

Max

I sorted through the bin measuring them all .
Just the measurements I got .
Billy
Next time I have a anti rotation pin out I will gauge it .
Just didn't have one or I would .

[1FSTRK]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#gauge-pins/=r7uyof

[Billy]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#gauge-pins/=r7uyof

Perfect. Any diameter you would need to the 1/2 thousandth, HRC 60-62, 2" long, $3.37ea. Just trim 1/4" and you're good to go. 

Billy
Next time I have a anti rotation pin out I will gauge it .
Just didn't have one or I would .

Cool. Thanks. 

[AllanW]

What clearance is ideal?

[N-gin]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#gauge-pins/=r7uyof

Thanks for the link!

I've got some coming in the mail.
I'll compare them to see if they are the same.
$20 for 6 pins and three sizes.

[BVHOG]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#gauge-pins/=r7uyof

Thanks for the link!

I've got some coming in the mail.
I'll compare them to see if they are the same.
$20 for 6 pins and three sizes.

Post up some pics when you get them, This could be a very affordable alternative to the Zippers stuff

[AllanW]

What is the ideal targeted clearance?

[AllanW]

What is the targeted ideal clearance?

[BUBBIE]

 

Thought it said in Previous postings that .002 to .004 was best...

signed....BUBBIE