1969 Motor Questions

[BBQBIKER]

Buying my 1st Shovel this week and have a couple questions for those smarter than me.

It has orig cases, Super E carb, mild cam and is kick only in a rigid chassis.

Owner sez that it is a 74in motor. Has great compression starts well runs great

I'm getting extra parts with it including a set of jugs and pistons taken off after a top end rebuild last year. 

These extra Jugs have part #'s 16568-78 and 16587-78
The old pistons are Wiseco and have "4012P5" stamped on the crowns

Google says these are 80" jugs and pistons. Could this motor have had a 80 flywheel and top end done at some point? Current owner has had it 10yrs and claims it's a 1200 but......??

Thanks for any insight

[westcomb]

It could have the stock wheels or any aftermarket ones so its hard to tell!

running a 80" bore is not a problem at all! ........ and just because it has 80" pistons don't mean its running a 80" flywheel ........... piston heights on old stuff is all over the place!

If the heads are off it is real easy to check stroke .......... and sometimes a look in the timing plug hole will give you a idea what wheels you have.......

[strokerjlk]

Same crank for both pistons .

[Mule]

Sounds like 80 inch jugs with 1200 over sized pistons. 80 inch bore is .060 over 1200.

[tmwmoose]

-78 cylinders were made in both bores 3 7/16  74"   and 3 1/5  80"  the new -78 cyl just had a thicker base flange
The flywheels were not the same the 74" 3.968  80" 4.250
standard size 74" piston 3.440
standard size 80" piston 3.44 + .060 = 3.5"
now you could have some .060 or .070 74" piston there, ya need to look up that weisco #
The two pistons 74 & 80" have diferent compression heights they are just different cause of there intended stroke use
If you put a regular 80" piston in a 74 lower end compression will be so low it will run like 
That weisco piston may be a super high comppresion piston which may over come the above 

[strokerjlk]

-78 cylinders were made in both bores 3 7/16  74"   and 3 1/5  80"  the new -78 cyl just had a thicker base flange
The flywheels were not the same the 74" 3.968  80" 4.250
standard size 74" piston 3.440
standard size 80" piston 3.44 + .060 = 3.5"
now you could have some .060 or .070 74" piston there, ya need to look up that weisco #
The two pistons 74 & 80" have diferent compression heights they are just different cause of there intended stroke use
If you put a regular 80" piston in a 74 lower end compression will be so low it will run like 
That weisco piston may be a super high comppresion piston which may over come the above 

sorry my memory is slipping. i better stick with twin cam info. should have remembered that from my 4.125 stroke 84 ci build.

[tmwmoose]

-78 cylinders were made in both bores 3 7/16  74"   and 3 1/5  80"  the new -78 cyl just had a thicker base flange
The flywheels were not the same the 74" 3.968  80" 4.250
standard size 74" piston 3.440
standard size 80" piston 3.44 + .060 = 3.5"
now you could have some .060 or .070 74" piston there, ya need to look up that weisco #
The two pistons 74 & 80" have diferent compression heights they are just different cause of there intended stroke use
If you put a regular 80" piston in a 74 lower end compression will be so low it will run like 
That weisco piston may be a super high comppresion piston which may over come the above 

sorry my memory is slipping. i better stick with twin cam info. should have remembered that from my 4.125 stroke 84 ci build.

Jim you can stay after class and clean the chalk boards

[Trouble]

A quick and easy way (assuming stock engine) is to count the fins on the cylinders. 9 Fins is a 1340 (80 CI). 10 fins is a 1200 (74 CI)
Found this from a faulty memory.

[westcomb]

I googled the weisco part number you listed .......... those are 9:1 1200 pistons ........ But you said those are a extra set that come with the bike?

So anything could be in the bike now? ........ if the guy had it for the last 10 years I would think he should know a little about it? but if you pick it up and would like to know for sure? ........ you will need to dig into it!

The 9 fin stuff has been proven to not tell what bore you have BTW

74" motor runs a 3 31/32 stroke
80" motor is a 4 1/4 stroke

I have had some very good running 74" motors ..... and 80" ones as well ....... set up makes a huge difference in a shovel! so if your looking for performance mods there is likely a lot that can be done in this case! ........... be sure to post up some pictures if you pick it up!

[kd]

-78 cylinders were made in both bores 3 7/16  74"   and 3 1/5  80"  the new -78 cyl just had a thicker base flange
The flywheels were not the same the 74" 3.968  80" 4.250
standard size 74" piston 3.440
standard size 80" piston 3.44 + .060 = 3.5"
now you could have some .060 or .070 74" piston there, ya need to look up that weisco #
The two pistons 74 & 80" have diferent compression heights they are just different cause of there intended stroke use
If you put a regular 80" piston in a 74 lower end compression will be so low it will run like 
That weisco piston may be a super high comppresion piston which may over come the above 

sorry my memory is slipping. i better stick with twin cam info. should have remembered that from my 4.125 stroke 84 ci build.

Jim you can stay after class and clean the chalk boards

And IIRC the 84" crank was 4.5 " stroke. You had to clip the pistons so they didn't contact and lower the oil drain holes in the cylinders cuz the oil ring would cross over it at the bottom of the stroke.

[tmwmoose]

-78 cylinders were made in both bores 3 7/16  74"   and 3 1/5  80"  the new -78 cyl just had a thicker base flange
The flywheels were not the same the 74" 3.968  80" 4.250
standard size 74" piston 3.440
standard size 80" piston 3.44 + .060 = 3.5"
now you could have some .060 or .070 74" piston there, ya need to look up that weisco #
The two pistons 74 & 80" have diferent compression heights they are just different cause of there intended stroke use
If you put a regular 80" piston in a 74 lower end compression will be so low it will run like 
That weisco piston may be a super high comppresion piston which may over come the above 

sorry my memory is slipping. i better stick with twin cam info. should have remembered that from my 4.125 stroke 84 ci build.

Jim you can stay after class and clean the chalk boards

And IIRC the 84" crank was 4.5 " stroke. You had to clip the pistons so they didn't contact and lower the oil drain holes in the cylinders cuz the oil ring would cross over it at the bottom of the stroke.

before specialized pistons were made you used stroker plates to acomplish this also they gave you a sleve to insert in the oil drain hole and transfered the hole down to the case . Ah the good ole days no EFI no dynos just strait pipes and  beer

[Hossamania]

-78 cylinders were made in both bores 3 7/16  74"   and 3 1/5  80"  the new -78 cyl just had a thicker base flange
The flywheels were not the same the 74" 3.968  80" 4.250
standard size 74" piston 3.440
standard size 80" piston 3.44 + .060 = 3.5"
now you could have some .060 or .070 74" piston there, ya need to look up that weisco #
The two pistons 74 & 80" have diferent compression heights they are just different cause of there intended stroke use
If you put a regular 80" piston in a 74 lower end compression will be so low it will run like 
That weisco piston may be a super high comppresion piston which may over come the above 

sorry my memory is slipping. i better stick with twin cam info. should have remembered that from my 4.125 stroke 84 ci build.

Jim you can stay after class and clean the chalk boards

And IIRC the 84" crank was 4.5 " stroke. You had to clip the pistons so they didn't contact and lower the oil drain holes in the cylinders cuz the oil ring would cross over it at the bottom of the stroke.

before specialized pistons were made you used stroker plates to acomplish this also they gave you a sleve to insert in the oil drain hole and transfered the hole down to the case . Ah the good ole days no EFI no dynos just strait pipes and  beer

And points and condensor!

[BBQBIKER]

Thanks all for the info. I did purchase the bike. I was born in 69' so that was the clincher

It's a 69 FLH genny shovel in a 39 frame, 65 trans, belt primary and a jockey shift. I don't like the Paughco springer so seller deducted $$ and giving it back to him.  I have a lowered early FLH front end with a 21" wheel and drum setup that's going on.

The motor has a fresh top end with KB pistons and repop cylinders. The extra juggs I got are 9 fin and are at 0.050 over. Motor has an Andrews AB cam/solid lifters and an S&S Super E. 2-3 kicks cold and one kick hot. Runs perfect and the motor is very quiet, but not the drag pipes!

[Hossamania]

Proper pipes! Too bad you don't like the springer, I think it's kind of sexy.
Pretty sweet ride, looking forward to seeing it with the new front end, a classic look to it.

[BBQBIKER]

Proper pipes! Too bad you don't like the springer, I think it's kind of sexy.
Pretty sweet ride, looking forward to seeing it with the new front end, a classic look to it.

Thanks Hoss! Pipes are pretty decent and sounds like a shovel should. If it was an OE black springer I'd run it. It's got repop tanks but mostly a solid HD mutt all around and I'd like to keep it that way.

It's got brand new chain and rear drum. New Firestone 5x16 tire and I have another new Firestone 21 rib style for the front. It'll be a sweet ride.

[Ohio HD]

-78 cylinders were made in both bores 3 7/16  74"   and 3 1/5  80"  the new -78 cyl just had a thicker base flange
The flywheels were not the same the 74" 3.968  80" 4.250
standard size 74" piston 3.440
standard size 80" piston 3.44 + .060 = 3.5"
now you could have some .060 or .070 74" piston there, ya need to look up that weisco #
The two pistons 74 & 80" have diferent compression heights they are just different cause of there intended stroke use
If you put a regular 80" piston in a 74 lower end compression will be so low it will run like 
That weisco piston may be a super high comppresion piston which may over come the above 

sorry my memory is slipping. i better stick with twin cam info. should have remembered that from my 4.125 stroke 84 ci build.

4-1/2 stroke

[BBQBIKER]

Going to toss the springer and run this early FL front end. It's at machine shop now getting the tubes cut to maintain the low level stance the bike has.

[BBQBIKER]

Found some more pics from prev owner

[BBQBIKER]

Front end on and almost road ready

[BBQBIKER]

Got 100 miles on it so far so good. Ride is nicer than I expected, but decent bumps ya gotta prepare for. I swapped the springer for an early Hydra Glide front end, and moved the tailight/license plate from the rear axle to the sissybar. Here's my new bride

[Hossamania]

Very nice. Bet that turns some heads.

[76shuvlinoff]

looks great!

[Hogman]

Nice, VERY NICE!!!!!






ME

[BBQBIKER]

Well I put 3,000 trouble free miles on the shovel over the summer and now gonna make a few changes over the winter.

Bye bye tins....new sissy bar, pipes  tank and carb.

Ordered these pipes



Got this S&S GBL



Ordered this 33" Sissybar



And thinking about this tank or a generic 2.2 gal Sportster tankp

[kd]

You'll love that carb if it's sized for your engine. There's 2 jets and a mid range needle in it so it is quite adjustable. Get with S&S and buy the range of needles and jets for your set up. I used to carry them with me and fine tune for altitude in a few minutes while on the road. I'm a little anal though.