Most torque-agressive M8 plug/play cam?

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Who's grind?

[Herko]

...M8 plug/play cam?

Without the "play" (tune), better to leave the stock cam in place.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

OK.

[Gordon61]

FM, Jamie Long, did some testing which you can see in the stickie at the top of the forum. Steve Cole and $tonecold also did some testing on another forum.

[Hossamania]

Durwood has also done quite a bit of testing.

[BVHOG]

I have tuned and ridden the 447 Torque cam that Harley has out in a couple 107 builds  Surprisingly good and the feel on the road is outstanding. Plus the warranty thing

[DTTJGlide]

The best left side TQ I've seen in testing so far is the TTS100 & the Wood M822x, they run out fairly quickly up top.

[Durwood]

The best left side TQ I've seen in testing so far is the TTS100 & the Wood M822x, they run out fairly quickly up top.

I haven't tried the TTS cam, but in the testing I did with the Billet Cat, the Redshift 468 was the best on the left between it the 22X and CR-460.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=95948.225

[1FSTRK]

The best left side TQ I've seen in testing so far is the TTS100 & the Wood M822x, they run out fairly quickly up top.

Where did you see the TTS100? Is there a dyno sheet available?

[DTTJGlide]

Steve & $tonecold did a 6 cam test on HDF, CR460, RS468, SE8 462, TTS100, TTS150, & Wood WM8 22X, charts for all plus a base run to be able to compare dynos.

[1FSTRK]

Steve & $tonecold did a 6 cam test on HDF, CR460, RS468, SE8 462, TTS100, TTS150, & Wood WM8 22X, charts for all plus a base run to be able to compare dynos.

Interesting test, just like in the runs posted here on HTT it shows how close and consistent all the dynos are. It also helps show how important the cam/exhaust system combination is in determining the final outcome.

One thing all of these tests have in common is no one has picked the forced scaling option in the software combined with a set scale for all graphs. This will not change he actual recorded hp or tq but not using it does fool the eye when viewing graphs.

[BVHOG]

Unlike the tests here done by Durwood that are straight forward they felt the need to add drama and "unveil" the results over at the other place, guess which cam was the favorite?  No surprise there.  Would be interesting to see load cell readings at differing rpm for the different cams, not just an inertia test but I guess we are lucky we get what we get and you can't beat the cost.

[1FSTRK]

No doubt step testing and load specific data will give even more information but it is more expensive, and more time consuming to get good data.

I guess with the free data we have to accept the marketing. The "blind" survey will give a picture of what the customer see when they look at a graph. Bob you know half the job of tuning is educating us customers.

I can't figure out how they got the scaling on the left Right side of the graph, it is just a tick off and the range changes from graph to graph on some. I also think the exhaust choice leaves a lot on the table as far as area under the curve but all in all a legitimate test when you look at the time spend and their original agenda.

[Gordon61]

One thing all of these tests have in common is no one has picked the forced scaling option in the software combined with a set scale for all graphs.

I can't figure out how they got the scaling on the left side of the graph,

I'm just a customer too but I must be a thick one ...what's wrong with the scales on the left either side? they all say the same 0-120 so dead easy to compare I thought, and the results are just the same dyno sheets that FM did here (and there too) and you too Durwood, no? What am I missing??

[1FSTRK]

One thing all of these tests have in common is no one has picked the forced scaling option in the software combined with a set scale for all graphs.

I can't figure out how they got the scaling on the left side of the graph,

I'm just a customer too but I must be a thick one ...what's wrong with the scales on the left? they all say the same 0-120 so dead easy to compare I thought, and the results are just the same dyno sheets that FM did here (and there too) and you too Durwood, no? What am I missing??

OK so I own it, It can't tell my right from my left. I fixed the earlier post.
If you look you will see the right side (tq scale) the numbers do not align with the hash marks. On the left side each mark is worth 5 hp, three marks between each number. On the right side 5 marks between each number. This is a simple software adjustment to force both sides to use the same scaling and same perspective when viewing the graph. Not a big thing but in reviewing data consistency is best.

If you right click each graph and save them to your computer, then show them as a slide show you will see that some jump around a bit. It also makes comparing curves and the actual 5252 number harder to do. This is just my observation, not a big criticism

[sfmichael]

Unlike the tests here done by Durwood that are straight forward they felt the need to add drama and "unveil" the results over at the other place, guess which cam was the favorite?  No surprise there.  Would be interesting to see load cell readings at differing rpm for the different cams, not just an inertia test but I guess we are lucky we get what we get and you can't beat the cost.

yep 

[Gordon61]

On the left side each mark is worth 5 hp, three marks between each number. On the right side 5 marks between each number. This is a simple software adjustment to force both sides to use the same scaling and same perspective when viewing the graph. Not a big thing but in reviewing data consistency is best.

ah ok, I see what you were getting at.  I've got to say I never even noticed the minor marks on the left because the majors all line up with the majors on the power side (which when they don't, I do find horribly confusing if not just downright misleading)

Scaling graduation marks don't change data consistency or in any way invalidate anything mind you, but if it puts folks off trying to lay a ruler down on a printout or something then fair enough.

[Gordon61]

Unlike the tests here done by Durwood that are straight forward they felt the need to add drama and "unveil"

aw come on, wots wrong with a bit of fun ...especially over the winter when a lot of bikes are buried behind a snow drift anyways

Would be interesting to see load cell readings at differing rpm for the different cams

I've never seen that mentioned before ...did Durwood or FM do that, what does that tell us customers over a WOT chart (although we already know that a WOT chart is a bit meaningless in the real world anyway)

[Durwood]

Unlike the tests here done by Durwood that are straight forward they felt the need to add drama and "unveil"

aw come on, wots wrong with a bit of fun ...especially over the winter when a lot of bikes are buried behind a snow drift anyways

Would be interesting to see load cell readings at differing rpm for the different cams

I've never seen that mentioned before ...did Durwood do that, what does that tell us customers over a WOT chart (although we already know that a WOT chart is a bit meaningless in the real world anyway)

Without going into details, I too have a torque/load cell and utilize it during different stages of the tuning process.

I find just the opposite, the data gathered on a max power run is very telling of the components used, the quality of the tune, IE (how good of a job am I doing), also in fact, proportionately tell me how any given combination is going to feel on the street.

Thanks Bob..The data gathered during our testing is being put to use in further cam development at Cycle-Rama....

[HD/Wrench]

Well you could look at it in another format . See if you can open this . I do not have a load cell . And to be honest not many shops do .. I know BVBOB has one in fact I think he is the only one I know that has one .  this was a run from a 116 Indian I was tuning with CX PV . All the data from that run is cell by cell .

[BVHOG]

I guess the point I would like to make it from all these graphs the various cams are VERY close in performance. So where is the bottleneck?  I want to know which one of these cams is the most rider friendly, will run on lousy gas, is quiet and doesn't beat up the valvetrain.  From all this testing the one thing I see for sure is as an industry there is a long way to go yet in developing the M8 engine for performance.

[HD/Wrench]

I agree BOB many of these cams are very close and its not going to be a  huge deal one way or another .  Many good bolt in cams 

[1FSTRK]

There are always different ways to look at the test data. Sometimes we do not see what we thought we were looking for but if we keep an open mind we can still learn plenty.

There are trends and some of these cams come out near the bottom no matter who's test we look at. We can also see regardless of who's dyno or which exhaust some are more right or left side of the graph. Lots of good info mixed in with all the marketing if we just look.

[Sunny Jim]

For what it's worth, I am more than happy with my selection. I rolled with the CR 460 from cycle Rama .

[Gordon61]

Lots of good info mixed in with all the marketing if we just look.

agreed