I think I just joined the sumping club

[richbiker]

Yesterday I was cruising up the freeway for 15 minutes and just as my exit came up I started feeling the power falling off,  down shifted and it felt like I down shifted 2-3 gears because of the drag from the engine, down shifted again and same thing, looked in the mirror and saw massive amount of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust, came to a stop and the engine died and will not restart. 
Towed to the Dealer and they say it will be a week or so before they can get a look at it.
My bike is 2017 CVO ultra limited engine is stock, has a High flow air cleaner and fullsac exhaust head pipe and baffles. 2,703 miles

My biggest concern is I have heard a lot of the sumping  bikes have had the engine replaced and it sound like others only get the oil pump replaced.  How likely is it that I will need an engine verses just a pump? and how deep do they disassemble to inspect everything?

The dealer is telling me it will be 1 week before they can look at it so I have a lot of time to speculate and waist time.

[happyman]

just wait for your dealer to contact  HD. they call the shots.  did you notice any strong oder of burnt oil by chance. sounds like it may have got pretty warm. pull the dip stick and check oil.  see how it compares to the last time you checked it. then take a wiff of the oil. its tell tale I have to think. Good luck  for sure.

[richbiker]

Yes the smoke was definitely oil burning, and yes the oil tank is low now and was fine before the ride.  Also when I opened the dipstick the tank was pressurized never seen that before.

[VDeuce]

Yes the smoke was definitely oil burning, and yes the oil tank is low now and was fine before the ride.  Also when I opened the dipstick the tank was pressurized never seen that before.

Interesting. Goes to speculation there is a case venting (lack of) issue.

[VDeuce]

Speculation, but with yours not being able to start + the smoke, I would bet you are looking at a replacement engine. They will pull the crank sensor and lots of oil will come out. They will borescope it and likely find damage. Then they call the mothership.

Google harley m1450 and look at the service bulletin.

[tmwmoose]

Speculation, but with yours not being able to start + the smoke, I would bet you are looking at a replacement engine. They will pull the crank sensor and lots of oil will come out. They will borescope it and likely find damage. Then they call the mothership.

Google harley m1450 and look at the service bulletin.

If the motor if full of oil why is it toast especially with so much under the pistons ? As far as not starting if its full of oil and can't turn over against the resistance/drag of excess oil and possibly fowled plugs why is the engine toast ? Reason I ask is I remember XL motors doing this and nothing got overheated and fried . Need educating please

[happyman]

when these things sump they get very hot.  crank, balancer, and rods all submersed in , dragging the motor down and as it does, produces huge amounts of heat, which by the way will discolor everything in the case if it gets hot enough .. it also has a terrible oder to it when ya pop the dipstick on the oil reservoir. with the heat comes the destruction of the motor if its hot enough and if your out there rolling along at 70-85 mph  cruise set, and listening to tunes if weather is right yu will feel the heat on your boots and right leg without any doubt.   
 

[PoorUB]

My bike is 2017 CVO ultra limited engine is stock, has a High flow air cleaner and fullsac exhaust head pipe and baffles. 2,703 miles

I hope your dealer likes you. If they want to be dicks about it, your exhaust voided your warranty!

[92flhtcu]

Richbiker, please keep us posted
Thanks!

[richbiker]

As tings unfold I will let you all know.

As for the exhaust my dealer still pushes stage 1 kits with aftermarket head pipe and V&H Fuel Pack.  So I hope I am safe because several of my friends payed them for V&H and Rush head pipes so if they Void me they better void them too.

[Dave I.]

Must have done it real good. My buddies 17 cvo stage iv has sumped 3 times and never smoked or locked up. Hope they make it right for you and get you back riding soon.

[happyman]

Must have done it real good. My buddies 17 cvo stage iv has sumped 3 times and never smoked or locked up. Hope they make it right for you and get you back riding soon.

did it ruin the motor  or what happened

[Dave I.]

Not yet. I keep telling him to try and blow it up. 7 year warranty so HD might have it figured out by then. They just keep throwing oil pumps at it. Supposedly has the latest greatest in it now.

[BVHOG]

To be as bad as described I would suspect a broken scavenge gear, will be interesting to see the results of the tear down

[happyman]

How often does the savage gear break?

[rbabos]

How often does the savage gear break?

Generally never unless something hard goes through it and snaps the rotor.
Ron

[lickidysplit]

As tings unfold I will let you all know.

As for the exhaust my dealer still pushes stage 1 kits with aftermarket head pipe and V&H Fuel Pack.  So I hope I am safe because several of my friends payed them for V&H and Rush head pipes so if they Void me they better void them too.

Not to worry, you are after all "rich biker". But all jokes aside the Moco should stand behind you on this issue. I hope it is sorted out in a quick manner. If a dealer installs it then everything should be good. I would think the dealer would stand behind you.

[PoorUB]

It might be up to the dealer as we all have heard of the MoCo refusing warranty on modded motorcycles. If it is at the dealer that did the mods it should turn out ok as long as the factory does not get involved.

[Jim Bronson]

One week is too long, especially for a $43K bike. That's about what I paid for my '17 Mustang GT 5.0 Premium. My dealer would have a tech on it the following day.

[tmwmoose]

One week is too long, especially for a $43K bike. That's about what I paid for my '17 Mustang GT 5.0 Premium. My dealer would have a tech on it the following day.

When I worked at the dealerships in the 70s and the most expensive bikes were $6500-$8400 we jumped on new bike warranty the day it arrived or the next day

[CW#]

My bike is 2017 CVO ultra limited engine is stock, has a High flow air cleaner and fullsac exhaust head pipe and baffles. 2,703 miles

I hope your dealer likes you. If they want to be dicks about it, your exhaust voided your warranty!

That's not necessarily true... it has to be proven that the exhaust change caused the problem and if the dealer installed them or no one else with those pipes has this issue or if it can be shown that sumping caused the problem the pipes don't effect the warranty... even knowledgeably pipes that aren't wide open would never do this to an engine in 2700+ miles... it would be quicker or longer. If they deny the warranty get them immediately notified that ALL parts will be returned to you along with the oil in preparation for a lawsuit.

[Coyote]

My bike is 2017 CVO ultra limited engine is stock, has a High flow air cleaner and fullsac exhaust head pipe and baffles. 2,703 miles

I hope your dealer likes you. If they want to be dicks about it, your exhaust voided your warranty!

That's not necessarily true... it has to be proven that the exhaust change caused the problem and if the dealer installed them or no one else with those pipes has this issue or if it can be shown that sumping caused the problem the pipes don't effect the warranty... even knowledgeably pipes that aren't wide open would never do this to an engine in 2700+ miles... it would be quicker or longer. If they deny the warranty get them immediately notified that ALL parts will be returned to you along with the oil in preparation for a lawsuit.

Part of HDs settlement with the EPA is that they are to revoke warranties on any newer bikes with any mods to the motor/emissions parts. They can, have and will invalidate the warranty.

[PoorUB]

My bike is 2017 CVO ultra limited engine is stock, has a High flow air cleaner and fullsac exhaust head pipe and baffles. 2,703 miles

I hope your dealer likes you. If they want to be dicks about it, your exhaust voided your warranty!

That's not necessarily true... it has to be proven that the exhaust change caused the problem and if the dealer installed them or no one else with those pipes has this issue or if it can be shown that sumping caused the problem the pipes don't effect the warranty... even knowledgeably pipes that aren't wide open would never do this to an engine in 2700+ miles... it would be quicker or longer. If they deny the warranty get them immediately notified that ALL parts will be returned to you along with the oil in preparation for a lawsuit.

Part of HDs settlement with the EPA is that they are to revoke warranties on any newer bikes with any mods to the motor/emissions parts. They can, have and will invalidate the warranty.

It also clearly state that in the warranty the any unapproved modifications can void the warranty, such as non-EPA approved exhaust. I forget the exact wording, but this is close.

Read here, http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=103674.0   the thread is about trailer hitches, but it mentions modifications.

Oh hell, read this from that thread,

Read #4 .... copied from the 2017 Softail Owners Manual

Exclusions

This limited warranty will not apply to any motorcycle.

1.Which has not been operated or maintained as specified in the owner's manual.


2.Which has been abused, neglected, misused, improperly stored, used "off the highway," or used for racing or competition of any kind.


3.Which is not manufactured to comply with the laws of the market in which it is registered.


4.Which has off-road or competition parts installed to enhance performance, a trailer hitch, or has other unapproved modifications (even if these modifications include genuine Harley-Davidson parts and accessories that are not approved for use on your motorcycle). These modifications may void all or parts of your new motorcycle limited warranty. See an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer for details.


5.Which has been subjected to an act of God, war, riot, insurrection, nuclear contamination, natural disasters, including, but not limited to, lightning, forest fires, dust storms, hail storms, ice storms, earthquakes, or floods, or other circumstances out of Harley-Davidson's control.


6.Which has been in an accident or collision or has been dropped or struck.


As far as I know FulSac does not make a EPA approved exhaust, their exhausts are for off road or race use only. (Like that stops anyone!)

I often wondered why HD would allow anyone to mod their motorcycle, then have engine trouble and warranty it! If I sold you a stock Harley and a week later you brought it back with a blown up engine and it had different exhaust, AC and a tuner installed I sure would not warranty it!!

And to CW, is your attorney bigger than the motor companies? Plus when it states in the owners manual that modifications might void your warranty? Good luck with that lawsuit!

[moose]

so they won't look for a week    take it home to clean it and bring back the day they said they would look at it   (with stock exhaust) if your dealer is really a richard

[richbiker]

UPDATE

when I dropped off the bike I told the service adviser the everything I said in my original post and all he put on the work order was "blue smoke and died".
SO the tech started it and went for a drive.  It did smoke lightly when he first started it and while on the drive the smoke went away.
He check a few things and found the head vent where twisted some and possibly pinched he also checked the oil level and it was now fine.
I then talked to the service manager and he agreed that he did not get the correct info from the adviser and they will do some more tests.
I asked if they had seen any bikes that have Sumped and he said no, so I asked him to look into bulletin 1450.
They are closed sunday and monday so we will see how long it takes them to get back to my bike.